Tommy Stinson on Chinese, GNR and Axl

[Dean]

I found this interview with Tommy from June that features a few great notes on his time with Guns. He echoes what Bumble has said previously about Chinese Democracy in that time will show what a great album it truly is.

The spoiler contains the full GNR portion of the interview, the link below contains the full interview which is worth a read. If you haven't already, check out Tommy's new album Wronger under the Cowboys In The Campfire moniker. 

Tommy Stinson Interview: New Album 'Wronger' & Much More (stereogum.com)

On Axl post Chinese and the current incarnation of the band:

"He hasn’t made another record since, which I think it’s unfortunate. He’s got a lot of talent to work with right now to make a really great record."

On Chinese:

"There is a lot going on in that record. I think people are going to realize it’s a really great record down the road. It’s going to be looked at historically as their best record, I think. You can look at the first records and stuff like that. They have the hits on them. But what is interesting about Chinese Democracy is there’s a lot of him in those songs. He sang a fucking ton about his life, and about life in general in those songs, moreso than just a rock ‘n’ roll song about a fucking drug addict, that kind of thing or “Sweet Child O’ Mine.” There’s a lot more going on there, depth-wise from him, mentally, than those earlier records."

Spoiler

Being In Guns N’ Roses (1998-2014)

You mentioned doing multiple things at once. I’m impressed that you’ve completely overlapped so many times. You were in Soul Asylum when you were in Guns N’ Roses. How did you balance doing everything then?


STINSON: Well, with Guns N’ Roses, there was always a lot of down time. We’d tour — bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and then not tour for big chunks of time. That gave me time to work on other records, do other bands, whatever. I didn’t sign exclusively to them to begin with.

Oh, okay — you weren’t on a retainer then.

STINSON: Yeah. [Laughs.] Well, originally, I was on retainer, but the retainer didn’t keep retaining. So I was able to do other things and be like, “Well, I gotta make some bread here. I gotta do this other gig. Do you mind?” “Yeah, okay.” So it worked out.

How was being in Guns N’ Roses different from all the other bands you’d been in or fronted?


STINSON: Fundamentally, not at all when it really comes down to it. The one takeaway that I had from Guns N’ Roses — which I still really can’t say enough about this — I learned how to collaborate with people in a way that I would’ve never had collaborated with otherwise.

When I first joined that group of people — and it evolved a little bit over time, but all of us came from different backgrounds of music. Robin [Finck] came from Nine Inch Nails. Paul Tobias had grown up with Axl. Dizzy [Reed] had come from the LA scene. [Drummer] Josh Freese was the one that got me the gig. We’d all come from different places. Basically, Axl liked the different things that all of us brought to the table, and we wrote together in this way.

Cut to songs having pieces of all of us in ’em. To his credit — and he won’t ever accept this as credit, I don’t think, because I don’t think he quite understood what he was doing — but Axl really was a great producer in this. He liked what all of us brought to the table and he found a way to, “Okay, I like this part here. I got a vocal melody here, but it needs to go. Maybe Tommy, try something like this, or Paul.” He would get us to push forward in a way. It got to be a little bit time-consuming, but that’s not why it took so long to make that record [Chinese Democracy], to be honest with you. He did a thing where he got us all involved in the music. There wasn’t a song on there really that had just one guy writing it.

Even my own song — I brought a couple different songs to the plate and even that, he liked most of the song, but [would say] “Robin, what do you think?” And Robin would put his two cents in there. It was a really interesting way of doing it that I’d never done before in that capacity.

It was a really cool thing. Love that record for that reason. It has a lot of stuff going on in it. Whether you like the record or not, it took a lot of group effort to make it. Axl works that way, because I think in the past with the old band and that thing, everyone was vying for importance and vying for their song, blah, blah, blah. And he was the singer that had to decide, “Well, I like that one. This one needs work.” But everyone was trying to get him to sing their song. That got to be troubling, so it was more like he had to find a way to make everyone work together. He’s really great at that.

He hasn’t made another record since, which I think it’s unfortunate. He’s got a lot of talent to work with right now to make a really great record.

I re-listened to Chinese Democracy before we chatted here. That makes the record make so much more sense now. I feel like maybe that it’s been long enough now, people can listen to the record with less of the biases they had at the time and listen to actual music and get a sense of what’s there. Because it is really interesting. It’s dense.


STINSON: There is a lot going on in that record. I think people are going to realize it’s a really great record down the road. It’s going to be looked at historically as their best record, I think. You can look at the first records and stuff like that. They have the hits on them. But what is interesting about Chinese Democracy is there’s a lot of him in those songs. He sang a fucking ton about his life, and about life in general in those songs, moreso than just a rock ‘n’ roll song about a fucking drug addict, that kind of thing or “Sweet Child O’ Mine.” There’s a lot more going on there, depth-wise from him, mentally, than those earlier records.

There’s a quote that’s often attributed to Richard Fortus about that you were the “ultimate musical director” or “band leader” during rehearsals for Guns N’ Roses. Did you view yourself that way?


STINSON: You know, I kind of had to. In the beginning, certainly, because we went through two different drummers. When Brain [Mantia] came on, it was clear that if I’m playing bass with him, I got to get on the same page with him, and we had to work hard at it, and then get everyone to play along and play the right parts had to be important. I think because I had the gumption to do it, I took on that role to some degree. I guess for all practical purpose, that became my role in a way unwittingly.

But someone had to corral everyone and make what came out make sense. I was able to do that. I was able to assert myself that way and get everyone, “You gotta play. This is the way it is on the record. This is what you gotta play. You can’t be back there behind the beat. You can’t be doing this, that, and the other thing.” So I was able to pull it together that way, and I think Axl appreciated that as we went along.

What led you to be able to do that? Was it being in the Replacements? Was it fronting the bands?


STINSON: Well, I saw all these different characters and I saw what they played and what they sounded like, and I was able to go, “Well, we’re here to play these songs for their fans, for the Guns N’ Roses fans. We better get it down good if we don’t want to get killed.” So that was where I came from with it, was like, “Okay, our rhythm has to be fucking tight,” because Duff [McKagan] and Matt Sorum or Steve Adler, they held down a pretty tight fucking rhythm section. I mean, when they were on, I should say. [Laughs.] The guitars fell into place in a particular way.

And the parts — you can come in there and think you know a Guns N’ Roses song until you fucking break it down, and break down what Izzy was playing versus what Slash was playing versus what is going on. There’s a lot there. There’s a lot of fucking different parts in those songs, and you can’t noodle through them. You can’t just fuck around. You gotta nail it. In my mind, it was left to me, because I had the most experience of a lot of them. For my coming into the group later than the original bunch of guys — when I first joined the group, I had a lot more experience than all of them except for Dizzy pretty much. But yeah, so I just took it on.

You also got to sing lead a few times with Guns N’ Roses, on your solo track “Motivation” and then a “Sonic Reducer” cover. How much fun was that then? Did you enjoy that?


STINSON: I had fun with it. I mean, it either that or do a bass solo. [Laughs.] I was not about to fucking sit up there and do a bass solo. But Axl runs around so much on stage, he needs a fucking break in every few songs to get his wind about him and do his thing to keep moving. That’s why those shows are so long. But he wanted something out of me that I had to do, so I thought to do whatever came to mind.

The first time I did anything outside of anything, I think we did a fucking Sex Pistols song, I’m blanking on what it was right now. But he really liked that. He’s in the talk-back as we’re playing the song, “That’s fucking great, I love that, blah, blah, blah.” He’s back in his quick-change booth, getting oxygen, getting water, whatever. [Laughs.] So from that point on, I’d switch it up every couple tours or whatever.

Awesome. What was the most fun Guns N’ Roses song to play live from a bass standpoint?

STINSON: I always liked playing “You Could Be Mine.” I always thought that was a really fun song. It’s bass-heavy in a particular way, and [laughs] just had that rock ‘n’ roll thing that I could dig into pretty good.

 

[lost un the jungle]

Tommy is the man! CD is a great record, what is wrong is the mixing/layers of multiple years, performers, etc. Those songs live are 100% better than the studio version

[SlashisGOD]

Chinese Democracy will certainly not be looked at as their best record.

[jamillos]

And his UYI lyrics weren't personal? Come on, Tommy, Axl is not taking you back in the band. Duff's there, remember? 

[CAFC Nick]

Not sure history will view it as their best but definitely their most progressive.

[ChristmasFnatic]

“It’s going to be looked at historically as their best record, I think.”

If he meant by NuGNR, then yes cuz it is their only album. A GN’R album? The worst imo. Even either Human Being, Farm, Raw Power, is better than the whole CD album.

 

[rocknroll41]

He sounds way too passive aggressive imo.

[D4NNY]

Will it be viewed as their best? Most definitely not. But if you consider how it’s viewed now compared to how it was viewed in 2008-2013, there seems to be a lot more appreciation amongst even casual fans. Just looking at YouTube comments shows it truly has grown on people and aged quite nicely. A lot more people seem to appreciate the different sounds/musical directions and effort Axl put in to it as time goes on

Edited August 4, 2023 by D4NNY

[Blackstar]

27 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Come on, Tommy, Axl is not taking you back in the band. Duff's there, remember? 

He was actually asked that question in another recent interview:

https://illinoisentertainer.com/2023/07/hello-my-name-is-tommy-stinson/

IE: Last time we talked, a few years ago for Bash & Pop, you’d decided to devote your life just to raising Talulah. Everything else — even Guns N’ Roses — excluded.

TS: Yeah. And you know, I had to. That’s kind of where I was at in life at that point, and I’m still pretty much here. I get out and do stuff with Cowboys in the Campfire now and some solo stuff, but I’m basically Dad Guy now. And I got to a point where I had to walk away from that gig with Axl, because I couldn’t be gone for four, five, or six weeks at a time anymore to tour with them. So I had to say I couldn’t do two or three tours, and by then, it got to just be obvious that my position wasn’t going to change, and I had the courts telling me that I couldn’t have my sister look after my daughter — it had to be or it had to be her mother, but then her mother was in and out of trouble, sooo…

IE: Are you allowed to still record with Axl if he needs you?

TS: Oh, yeah. But he’s got Duff now, he’s got, Slash. So my guess is, if he was gonna do anything now, he’d probably do it with those guys.

 

[2020_Intensions]

Notice when Tommy commented on Axl not releasing another record, he said he has a lot of talent (right now) to work with, not that he has a lot of finished songs? LOL

[anchel2]

Im friends with Tommy

The only thing I can say regarding Chinese is that he's not a fan of Bucket and Bumble ha ha ha and he told me in 1999 the record wasnt finished.

 

[Dean]

7 minutes ago, anchel2 said:

Im friends with Tommy

The only thing I can say regarding Chinese is that he's not a fan of Bucket and Bumble ha ha ha and he told me in 1999 the record wasnt finished.

 

Yeah, pretty well documented at this stage about the friction within the band. Even Brando’s recent interview with Tommy he makes it clear he’s not a fan of Bucket, but despite their differences, they were great at what they done as a unit in a live setting and eventually on record.

[Dean]

57 minutes ago, lost un the jungle said:

Tommy is the man! CD is a great record, what is wrong is the mixing/layers of multiple years, performers, etc. Those songs live are 100% better than the studio version

Funny you say that. I’d say it’s the one album that is best enjoyed on the turntable. The rest of the catalogue, particularly Appetite, I think has much more energy in a live setting! 

It’s all subjective at the end of the day, but I’m glad to see that Tommy still takes a great deal of pride in the work that they created. It’s my favourite album of all time, not just out of GNR’s small but great catalogue.

[Voodoochild]

13 minutes ago, anchel2 said:

Im friends with Tommy

The only thing I can say regarding Chinese is that he's not a fan of Bucket and Bumble ha ha ha and he told me in 1999 the record wasnt finished.

 

Well, they at least had a version of the record that could have been released in 2000/01, after Bucket's additions. Before that, I agree that the record lacked a bit of guitar work, but the vocals were almost there for 90% of the songs.

[JimiRose]

29 minutes ago, anchel2 said:

Im friends with Tommy

The only thing I can say regarding Chinese is that he's not a fan of Bucket and Bumble ha ha ha and he told me in 1999 the record wasnt finished.

 

Yeah the bumble stuff was well documented, but never heard him mention any issues with bucket? They seem like opposite personalities but any insight into why they didn't get on?

[rocknroll41]

1 minute ago, JimiRose said:

Yeah the bumble stuff was well documented, but never heard him mention any issues with bucket? They seem like opposite personalities but any insight into why they didn't get on?

I remember Tommy saying on a live stream in 2009 that Bucket just wanted to band to be all about his guitar and Axl’s vocals and that he didn’t like how the other members had a say in things, which I think is bullshit cause Bucket is friends with Brain, for starters. I think Tommy developed a bit of an ego from becoming “the musical director,” as Brain put it, and felt like Bucket was a threat to his power or some shit.

[StrangerInThisTown]

Delusional stuff

[JimiRose]

1 minute ago, rocknroll41 said:

I remember Tommy saying on a live stream in 2009 that Bucket just wanted to band to be all about his guitar and Axl’s vocals and that he didn’t like how the other members had a say in things, which I think is bullshit cause Bucket is friends with Brain, for starters. I think Tommy developed a bit of an ego from becoming “the musical director,” as Brain put it, and felt like Bucket was a threat to his power or some shit.

Biggest rock band in the world and they're just little jealous kids really. Nothing surprises me tbh

[rocknroll41]

1 minute ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Delusional stuff

What I said, you mean? Or are you referring to Stinson himself saying that in the future everyone will think ChiDem is their best album?

[rocknroll41]

6 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Biggest rock band in the world and they're just little jealous kids really. Nothing surprises me tbh

Yeah I’ve said before that the entirety of NuGNR was just a bunch of jealous kids competing for Daddy Axl’s attention.

On top of Tommy’s fragile ego, Axl had to go and add a third guitarist. Finck and Fortus had worked it out so that they would be the only guitarists needed in 2006, and then Axl goes and throws in Bumblefoot out of nowhere, and Stinson ends up having the same petty issues with Bumble that he did with Bucket, and even Fortus hated Bumble. Then after ChiDem came out, Bumble kept insisting that they ditch the leftovers and just write new music from scratch, whereas the rest of the band didn’t even give a fuck.

More guitarists = More drama

Edited August 4, 2023 by rocknroll41

[AxlRoseCDII]

I personally think CD is the best GNR album. It will never, ever be perceived that way by the general public though, not now and not in 100 years.

[Blackstar]

32 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Yeah the bumble stuff was well documented, but never heard him mention any issues with bucket? They seem like opposite personalities but any insight into why they didn't get on?

Two very telling examples:

Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band. It's gonna be great. I won't get too far into that, because I don't really like slamming people or getting into people's personalities or anything like that. It's a really good thing. [Tommy Stinson, HTGTH, October 2004]

You know, he wears a bucket on his head. That’s all I can say about that. And there’s not a lot under it. [Tommy Stinson, Magnet Magazine, 2004]

As far as I know, [Buckethead] hasn't been replaced, but we already have enough guitarists. We have Robin Finck and Richard Fortus, and Buckethead will be on the record, too. I really have no idea why he decided to leave, but it didn't come out of left field because he's always come and gone. Even when I do see him, I don't know what he thinks. [Tommy Stinson, MTV News, June 9, 2004]

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Blackstar

[UYI4]

You know, I never understand why these people don’t ask more in depth questions.  Unless they do and are reviewed and passed on pre-interview.

how many songs do you know were actually finished with vocals on the lists  for CD? 
 

what really took so long? (People seem to skirt this one.  I’d like to hear someone say it truthfully)

too many vague questions that spark vague answers.  Drives me crazy 

[jamillos]

18 minutes ago, UYI4 said:

Unless they do and are reviewed and passed on pre-interview.

I'm 99% sure this is the case.

[Blackstar]

23 minutes ago, UYI4 said:

You know, I never understand why these people don’t ask more in depth questions.  Unless they do and are reviewed and passed on pre-interview.

how many songs do you know were actually finished with vocals on the lists  for CD? 
 

what really took so long? (People seem to skirt this one.  I’d like to hear someone say it truthfully)

too many vague questions that spark vague answers.  Drives me crazy 

Maybe because Tommy gives these interviews to promote his new material, not to talk about CD?

However, he has kind of answered some of these questions, e.g.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/how-tommy-stinson-moved-on-from-replacements-and-guns-n-roses-116429/

https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-album-legacy-8490842/

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Blackstar