Leaks seem to diminish appreciation of final versions

[alfa75]

Is it just me or are so many people attached to leaked versions of songs that it sort of ruins the experience of finally hearing the released versions. 

Since I can remember, there has always been a vocal contingent complaining about most CD leaked tracks compared to the ones on CD, esp. Catcher/IRS/SOD and others and now an equally vocal contingent with Absurd/HS/Perhaps. I am personally convinced these songs would be far less criticised and enjoyed if only the final releases were heard. 

I hear a lot of people bagging on the Slash solo of Perhaps, but a lot of that IMO, is that they got attached to the Finck solo, same with BBF and the Brain May solo in Catcher. 

Equally detrimental aspect of the leaks is that all the songs they are releasing are "Chinese Leftovers" as if that is relevant.  A good song is a good song, regardless of its origins. I think if Perhaps didn't have that baggage, it would be far more appreciated as what it is, a proper GNR song, which should be determined by the quality and sound, not it's creation history.

It's the exact same phenomenon that hampered people's inability to listen objectively to CD. The back story and bitterness about certain personnel not being part of it coloured negatively people's perception and not even giving the music a proper and open minded listen before evaluating it.

[Rovim]

I guess there's a little bit of that, getting attached to the first version of a song you've heard and Axl touched on that as well when he talked about the album, but sometimes a previous version is just better for me based on the music, like Catcher for example. I'd like to believe I can trust my ears without me getting used to or attached to a leaked version coloring my perception of it.

when it comes to Gn'R and the Chinese era, there are many official studio versions that I prefer to the leaks and same with other musicians/bands.

[F*ck Fear]

Sure.

To this day I still prefer 'The Blues' (Boston, 2002) to any other rendition of 'Street Of Dreams', including the album version. 

I happen to dig the new versions of both 'Perhaps' & 'Hard Skool' more than the leaks.

With that, I suspect that if 'Atlas Shrugged' gets reworked, it will be a let down in comparison.

Edited August 22, 2023 by F*ck Fear

[alfa75]

27 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

Sure.

To this day I still prefer 'The Blues' (Boston, 2002) to any other rendition of 'Street Of Dreams', including the album version. 

I happen to dig the new versions of both 'Perhaps' & 'Hard Skool' more than the leaks.

With that, I suspect that if 'Atlas Shrugged' gets reworked, it will be a let down in comparison.

Just out of curiosity, why do you expect that?

[ZoSoRose]

You are right. It’s also why the band probably hates leaks. It is what it is, though, and these are ancient songs from the 90s and wary 2000s so I guess you can argue they should have put them out sooner.

I like the leaks AND final versions and listen to them all 

(I prefer the final Hard Skool, actually)

[smokingarthur]

I’m so grateful for the leaks, without them we wouldn’t have CITR(Brian May). I can’t imagine only having the final versions of the CD era songs. I would have a different opinion of GNR, not for the better. 

[F*ck Fear]

5 minutes ago, alfa75 said:

Just out of curiosity, why do you expect that?

The one mix (Brain drums up, or whatever) is absolutely killer. Just needs a final mix. I think the 'magic' will be lost in a re-recording. I'd love to be wrong, though!

Edited August 22, 2023 by F*ck Fear

[Nightrain7]

Honestly, its not our right to hear a ‘leak‘ therefore its not fair on the band to compare.

However, in GNR land without leaks we probably wouldn’t have releases… So take that for what it is.

[Voodoochild]

For an amateur musician POV, the leaks give a invaluable picture of the creativity process of my favorite band/artist. One of my favorite things was to notice the changes between the several Better leaks from 2006 to 2008, to see how the song evolved. 

I listened to the 2019 leaks because it was really a matter of not knowing if this band would be active again or not, or if those songs would ever surface in official capacity. And I'm glad I did, because there's some excellent work there from band members that are long gone. 

To hear some of those songs taking shape with official releases and with Slash and Duff is kinda bizarre though. I love it, but it's been hard to understand some of the musical decisions, be it the mixing or even the writing. That's why I'm more inclined to avoid an eventual The General leak. I want to experience the official release as something fresh. 

[pentatonicamenor]

Totally agree.

I only listen to Perhaps leak, days before the official release.

I'm not going to do it anymore.

All you need is just a litlle patience.

[t-p-d-a]

Maybe I'm the only one but i didn't hear the demos on a dialy basis. Yes I downloaded a huge folder with all Chinese Session Demos. I listen to all files and delete it some days after.

For me Hard Skool, Perhaps and ABSURD sounds really cool... I can't remember the demos anymore because i listen the final releases alot. For Atlas Shrugged and State Of Grace (?) i remember the melody but that's it... no details.

The only song (i don't know if this is a demo but sounds unfinished for me) is Oh My God where i hear it for years.. Awesome Song. If this gets a rework by Slash and Duff... maybe i will complain.



In my opinion. It's a matter of consume and habit.

[rumandraisin]

We're so lucky yo have the leaks and the locker discs. It gives us such an insight in to Chinese. Gives us different mixes with different musicians. 

Imagine just having the album. 

You can trace songs like TWAT along the years with bits added and removed. It's fascinating and adds to the whole CD experience I think. The leaks are part of that album. 

[Cosmo]

I for one rarely think the demos are superior. But I get it, the ones you're used to kinda stick to you and you feel like new versions seem kinda odd comparing to the one you grew to love.

The first version of Chinese Democracy I listened to didn't have the high pitched backing vocals and the bumblefoot fretless. I much prefer the final version. I didn't really hear any other of the CD demos prior to it's release, though.

Hard Skool has some parts I prefer in the demo like the solo and the breakdown, but the final makes up for that with the mix, IMO. I don't go for the demo why I feel like listening to it, although I barely do. Not my cup of tea.

As for Perhaps, I definitely prefer the solo in the demo version but hate the overlapping vocals in the chorus. I'm not sure wether I prefer Slash's guita in the verses or that lick Robin did. Kinda on the fence about it.

Comparing the two Going Down demos I listened to, I much prefer the version without Axl.

[Seb91]

I think the finished versions obviously sound more polished so the leaks haven't ruined my experience. Indeed, I was out the GN'R world for a bit so whilst I'd heard the Checkmate clip, the official Hard Skool version was the first one I heard all the way through. I then checked out the locker leaks but it was a couple of years after they dropped. I think the bottom line is that there are some things I prefer from the leaks (not a fan of the HS intro) but the listening experience in terms of quality is always higher with the finished versions IMO. 

In terms of Chinese my main criticism is how low Tommy is in the mix on the finished record but I feel the best version of the record is the remix a fan did when the multi-tracks came out. I can't remember who it was but I had a whole album of their remixes back in the day and things sounded a lot better. I lost them when an old laptop of mine laptop died though. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Seb91

[AxlRoseCDII]

If this band actually released anything in a timely manner then maybe this wouldn’t be a problem. 

[Jw224]

I don't really agree with this when it comes to the demos vs released versions. People prefer what they prefer whether it's the new or old versions. I for example like the released version of HS more than the demo in a lot of ways, even if there's some stuff I miss from the demo or think could have been done better generally.

[ZoSoRose]

I prefer most of the final versions except maybe The Blues, IRS, and Riad (although I still like those final ones, too)

[pbj_jam]

The vast majority of gnr fan, you can almost sort of picture isnt going to be too happy with cd material. Then theres another group whos so opposed to cd and most importantly the circus surrounding it, that they would never be able to appreciate it, generalized answer, but take your pick.

 

Sure some don't care for it at all, but those are not the ones you find on a gnr forum

[Tyler Drama]

4 hours ago, F*ck Fear said:

Sure.

To this day I still prefer 'The Blues' (Boston, 2002) to any other rendition of 'Street Of Dreams', including the album version. 

Did you ever listen to the locker leaks? The Blues on there is basically a studio version of that. My personal favorite.

[Axls_Moustache_Rules]

Speak for yourself.

[Sweersa]

9 minutes ago, Tyler Drama said:

Did you ever listen to the locker leaks? The Blues on there is basically a studio version of that. My personal favorite.

The one with Josh on drums seems to be the best mix of The Blues, with the keyboards higher in the mix. 

[gavgnr]

If the band didn’t piss about so much and released music as soon as it was ready we wouldn’t have this issue 

[alfa75]

I wonder how much has to do with the order you hear it. All the AFD stuff (earlier versions) that was released in 2018 sounded vastly inferior to me, as in not even close to as good.  It was interesting to hear how those songs came to be, but there wasn't a single one to me that was in any way, better or even as good as the finished songs. Maybe some just prefer the other musicians that were involved on the CD stuff.

I totally understand that with GNR, leaks have been the only way to hear anything new, but it seems to undermine the artistic expression and perception of the final released version. 

In any case, I am so glad that there is no credible complete version of the General that we've heard. Although I sense that some will still not like it and speculate how awesome it would have been if only the NuGuns guys were on it. For years, there was much nostalgia for Slash, and now, the nostalgia is for Bucket and Finck.

I know that I will not listen to any more leaks now that they are releasing music.

 

[drlaban]

When the finished song gets released, delete the leak(s).  In ten years you’ll have forgotten how the demo sounded. 

[Lethalis]

My biggest gripe with new Guns N Roses music is usually that it's tinkered with too much. So early versions of songs usually sound better to my ears.

But yeah, part of your thinking is true, also for me. Sometimes if I haven't heard a song in while (also not the leak) and I listen to the final version I seem to enjoy it more (because I have largely forgotten the details of both versions).

Another part of the equation is that I can appreciate the more modern sound sometimes. I'm also a fan of Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails, so what Axl was trying to do isn't too far off from what I enjoy. Even though I'm also a Slash fan and like blues music, don't get me wrong. But once I enjoy a nice Finck or Buckethead solo, Slash can't really improve on it.

But it doesn't mean I hate Slash's playing... far from it.

Guess what I'm saying is it's a little bit of everything... death by a thousand cuts. Although the released version of Perhaps has really grown on me. And I'm still excited to hear The General after all these years.

PS I also love the early demo's of AFD. They were a bit slower and longer than the release, and more raw. I like that.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Lethalis