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Thoughts on Double Talkin Jive

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30 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Some of the UYI crediting is out of whack. There's a good possibility Izzy was involved with Locomotive since Slash jammed it out in Izzy's house iirc. 

Also, how does Izzy not play on CW but he plays the song live in Farm Aid when Illusions is being written/recorded. How does Adler have enough workable takes to make the album but not Izzy? Like someone else said, it's like there's no rhyme or reason to it.

Locomotive was jammed at his house  yes but Izzy wasn't there for it in the studio. I'll give a personal example: i wrote a song with a friend and bandmate, we recorded it but the day of the overdubs and final guitar parts he was getting an operation so I recorded his parts for him. Simples. 

As I posted above, Izzy was in Europe sobering up when Civil War was recorded. 

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5 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

On a side note: does anyone know why Axl sang lead vocals instead of Izzy even when Izzy was in the band in 1991? That's my biggest gripe with the song, no Izzy live version (it's live better I agree)

i suppose this is the closest thing you will get of izzy live vocal on the song -- his vocals are kind loud in the mix i love it

and also this is one of the two times (that i know of) that axl added "lyrics" to the outro of the song

priceless

 

Edited by ludurigan

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1 hour ago, Gunner927 said:

It's very clearly Izzy singing on the album version.

yeah, but axl sings both choruses (along with izzy) and a few lines by himself as well -- "no more patience... man" on the first chorus, for example

izzys voice is a bit higher on the mix on the first chorus then axls voice is higher on the mix on the entire second chorus

but yeah, izzy sings alone on the verses and he sings on both choruses so he is clearly the lead vocal guy here

2 hours ago, History2010 said:

I don't believe Izzy sings the lead vocals on this. It sounds just like Axl to me. I think the booklet is an error. 

you better believe it

axl sings both choruses (along with izzy) and a few lines by himself -- "no more patience... man" on the first chorus, for example

izzys voice is a bit higher on the mix on the first chorus

then axls voice is higher on the mix on the entire second chorus

but yeah, izzy sings alone on the verses and he sings on both choruses so he is clearly the lead vocal guy here

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4 hours ago, ToonGuns said:

This has been debated many times before on here.

My opinion is that it was Izzy using Slash's set up. It "sounds" like Slash, similar to the intro to Back Off Bitch, but more because of the tone. If you listen to the album version closely the playing is very average / understated for Slash compared to every other Slash solo on the album (and every live version of the song) and the speed is slow / sloppy which is why I think it is Izzy (which is also what the booklet says). It's an Izzy song as well so makes sense.

The counter argument is "it sounds like Slash because it is Slash, and the booklet is wrong" but I personally don't believe that.

Let's put it like this - if it is Slash he missed a trick and must have been having an off day that day.

I guess we'll never know for sure, unless someone can hit up Mike Clink on twitter or something.

this makes a lot of sense actually

what if slash takes over at 2m10s mark?

i listened to the studio album and it sounds like a second guitar comes in at 2m10s and that may be slash -- if its izzy soloing

that would also explain why slash wanted to extend and improv the live version of the solo -- as if to make a point "see how much better i can do it" or something

and wtf are you talking about an off-day man hahahaha that (izzy? slash?) solo is brilliant hahahaha :headbang:

 

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3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Agreed.. I do love the Tokyo 92 versions but those 93 versions were beasts.   I think this is the first of the two Argentina 93 shows.. Slash incorporates a little "Oh Well" and "Train Kept A Rollin" into the intro.  Agree with most that it is a better live song than the album track..

This intro is shorter and two the punch but hits the mark in every way.. Top notch

 

The first video is the one I listen to most.... There's a couple of great DTJ from Germany that are excellent quality and beasts... 

Each time I listen to these I think Duff was / is a great bass player. He was on the beat, never fucked up the changes in riffs, and kept up with Slash. While having ingested various substances.... I've played bars drunk and it's fucking hard to get it at the right level 😂 Duff my hat is off to you.....

PS: Glad you are sober, I certainly am. 

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Honestly, I don't want to say "stole" because the more accurate term is inspired, but DTJ owes a bit to original Fleetwood Macs Oh Well. Ive learned both on guitar, and you cant tell me DTJ didnt come from Oh Well. Same goes for Your Crazy, that's The Seeker redesigned. 

 

I love all the songs, and have no problem with inspiration. 😃

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One of my favorite live songs, and I also love the album version though it's clearly less stunning than live. 

The Paris 92' version is my absolute favorite. For someone who wants to know who Slash is, I'd show them that performance. 

I also love how Axl used to sing it, with the grit in "lies"; it's a shame Izzy sang this on the album. It's just an opinion.

 

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2 hours ago, MattleyCrue said:

I miss a good rant before DTJ!

How about a good old dedication to Izzy?:lol:

"Double talkin jive why dont you take our money motherfucker cause I got no more patience"

Edited by StrangerInThisTown

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On 07/12/2017 at 5:16 PM, AxlSlashthebest said:

and like I used to said I'm almost sure Slash try new riff at the begening. this version is the best . have a look at 0.52. We will have that on a new album. don't ask me witch one !!!!

 

i wouldnt mind if slash never played that again

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Best thing about DTJ to me is Izzy's vocal delivery and lyrics. Izzy has a very laidback punk rock "I don't give a fuck" attitude that comes through clearly on his songs, especially on Illusion tracks like DTJ. Someone here mentioned they would have preferred Axl to sing it. I disagree - I think the song wouldn't sound as cool - it works because it sounds like its being sung by someone who literally does not care - and the lyrics go perfectly with that.

Classic Izzy lyrics imho:

Back in town an'a all new friends
They sayin' how ya been?
Fucked up and outta place
That's how I felt back then
Double talkin' jive
Get the money motherfucker
'Cause I got no more patience

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Izzy's lyrics have an oblique abbreviated elliptical quality. That song is a good example of this. Pure (Let it Bleed-Exile era) Stones which in turn was an inheritence from the great blues/rock n' roll masters of the 1950s and earlier: full of innuendo, in-jokes and 'Americana' littered among barely related sentences. Listen to stuff like ''Casino Boogie'' and ''Rip this Joint'' by The Rolling Stones and you'll hear it there. 

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On 12/7/2017 at 5:08 AM, ToonGuns said:

Izzy on lead guitar on the album.

No.....and this talk about Izzy jumping on Slashs rig at the start of Back off Bitch is silly as well, you can even tell the difference between the tones of both solos in that one song. He probably just used a Tube screamer or something similar to give his tone a push if he even did that, the tone difference on BOB is as clear to me as the solos on Nightrain and Think About You. I also don't think Slashs rig (the finished product we hear anyway) was even set up when Izzy did his parts.

Edited by Silverburst80

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The live version alone proves the solo was written by Slash for Slash.

It just happens to feature all the things that makes slash's playing so amazing and unique. 

I can't believe Izzy who isn't really a guitar soloist for the most part just happened to write an iconic guitar solo on a whim that happens to totally showcase all of Slash's best features. It sounds like Slash and is representative of Slash's skills because it was Slash.

If you want to ask why the live version is better than the record, that's because that's also usually true of Slash. Compare studio Anastasia to 2012 Sydney Anastasia and you'll see my point.

Slash feeds of emotion in his playing and the vibe and connection with the crowd. His studio solos are rarely as inspired - they're normally just kind of musical blueprints that he improvises and channels from live.

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16 minutes ago, Chunder Monkey said:

The live version alone proves the solo was written by Slash for Slash.

It just happens to feature all the things that makes slash's playing so amazing and unique. 

I can't believe Izzy who isn't really a guitar soloist for the most part just happened to write an iconic guitar solo on a whim that happens to totally showcase all of Slash's best features. It sounds like Slash and is representative of Slash's skills because it was Slash.

If you want to ask why the live version is better than the record, that's because that's also usually true of Slash. Compare studio Anastasia to 2012 Sydney Anastasia and you'll see my point.

Slash feeds of emotion in his playing and the vibe and connection with the crowd. His studio solos are rarely as inspired - they're normally just kind of musical blueprints that he improvises and channels from live.

Yeah it just doesn't make any sense, why would someone write a career defining solo like that and just hand it over to someone else to play live?.

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5 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

Yeah it just doesn't make any sense, why would someone write a career defining solo like that and just hand it over to someone else to play live?.

A career defining solo? Are we not getting a bit carried away?! Absolutely fantastic solo / song etc, and one of my faves... But career defining? On a deep cut album track only fans know about? It isn't NR or SCOM. Playing live and playing in a studio setting are two totally different things, live Slash was the lead guitarist. Why didn't Izzy sing it live then? Does that mean Axl sings on the album?

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5 hours ago, Chunder Monkey said:

The live version alone proves the solo was written by Slash for Slash.

If you want to ask why the live verson is better than the record, that's because that's also usually true of Slash. Compare studio Anastasia to 2012 Sydney Anastasia and you'll see my point.

I suppose one possibility is for Slash to have written it but Izzy played it in the studio seeing as the song was an "Izzy" song.

I don't agree with the Slash plays better live comment, he plays fantastic in both settings. Live gives him more space to flush out solos / improvise, but his playing isn't better. Songs develop the more people play them as musicians become tighter which can change songs. Anastasia is a great solo on the CD as well and clearly Slash with his trademark noodling. DTJ has the Slash trademark sound, but the playing is different and the trademark playing only comes through on the live versions.

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21 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I've had this disagreement before with you, sufficing to say that the (studio) solo is a favourite of mine, and that I believe it to be the work of Slash. 

 

Massive favourite of mine also. Love it. And Don't Damn Me also (solo definitely is Slash!).

Not trying to disagree, just a bit of friendly debate. I enjoy this topic.

It absolutely could be Slash. Epic solo. I just think the playing is a little off, and given the differences with the live version (which was being played live that way around the time the album was released - so why wasn't the album version more epic like that, could have been a killer album track!) and the fact that Izzy is credited on the album and wrote the song, I sway more towards Izzy.

Hopefully one day we'll find out... Happy to be proven wrong.

Edited by ToonGuns
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