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why was Estranged retired for many years?

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On 23.01.2019 at 6:28 PM, RussTCB said:

I could be wrong, but I think what you're talking about is a pinch harmonic. Slash does them across a couple different GNR recordings but never does them live.  @Alejandro GNR

Pinch harmonics with a bend (attacked quicker though, something like THIS.MP3 ), it's not that easy to hold that note, I'd avoid it either as you can f**k that up very easy :P He plays a regular bend instead. About the second part of your post, you're indeed wrong. You don't have to look very far to finds some pinchin' from Slash: https://youtu.be/NWDnl5dBGzg?t=186
 

 

 

Edited by Ralphelmo

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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

I could be wrong, but I think what you're talking about is a pinch harmonic. Slash does them across a couple different GNR recordings but never does them live. I always thought Ron would do it for sure but he just never did.

Look at the 3.08 mark...it's pretty similar, you can notice its a higher tone. That's what I'm claiming Slash to do live hahaha

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18 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

On the tour I mentioned earlier, every show was CD-based. Most shows got 10 CD songs. Of course they also played classic songs, but the CD songs and covers equaled or outnumbered the classic songs at plenty of shows.

Here's the setlist from the show I saw:

  Reveal hidden contents

Chinese Democracy
Welcome To The Jungle
It's So Easy
Mr Brownstone
Sorry
Fortus Solo
Live And Let Die
If The World
Rocket Queen
Dizzy Solo
Street Of Dreams
You Could Be Mine
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
My Generation
IRS
November Rain
Bumblefoot Solo
Shackler's Revenge
Liquor & Whores
Out Ta Get Me
Ashba Solo
Sweet Child O' Mine
This I Love
Nightrain

Madagascar
Better
Patience
Paradise City

8 AFD, 1 Lies, and 2 UYI songs.

9 CD songs, 2 covers, and 2 'classic' covers (I don't count LALD and KOHD as GNR songs).

Even if you remove LALD and KOHD it's the same number of classic songs as CD songs and non-classic covers.

 

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to accept that the 09/10 shows were based around CD.

Actually, I know why, it's because you're still clinging to your tired, boring shtick. :shrugs:

nobody counts LALD and KOHD as GNR songs

but they are on GNR albums

so by your own numbers, its 9 CD songs

Chinese Democracy
Sorry
If The World
Street Of Dreams
IRS
Shackler's Revenge
This I Love
Madagascar
Better

and 13 songs from GNR albums

Welcome To The Jungle
It's So Easy
Mr Brownstone
Live And Let Die
Rocket Queen
You Could Be Mine
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
November Rain
Out Ta Get Me
Sweet Child O' Mine
Nightrain
Patience
Paradise City

including the opener and the closing number

i had no idea that 9 is bigger than 13, but since you said the show was based around Chinese Democracy, I believe you!

not only I believe you but I am very, very interested in learning this "alternate math" where 9 is bigger than 13!

Can you please point me to some good alternate math school were 9 is bigger than 13?

:rofl-lol:

Edited by ludurigan

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18 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Burying AFD was a misinterpreted quote in relation to the new album at the time UYI, not CD. Now he did say those words "I want to bury AFD" But that didn't mean he wanted to not play those songs going forward. He just wanted to make a better record and have people equally excited about that, rather than people staying firmly in the past and not allowing musical growth.

Also, do you write for alternativenation? you would fit right in! 

yeah, its all misinterpretation, so sorry for not interpreting that quote as it should!

now please let me know how is that you get access to axl's mind to know first hand what he really means when he says something!

:rofl-lol:

19 hours ago, DeathCubeUK said:

Lol, did you even read what i said?

"The past" as you refer to it, includes Live like a Suicide, AFD, Lies, UYI I, UYI II & The Spaghetti Incident.. "the now" is Chinese Democracy. 14 tracks. 16 if you want to include Silkworms & OMG. The same number of songs that are on UYI I alone. So yes, there are literally more songs from the past lol.

As a % of all Songs GN'R ever recorded to album, Axl actually includes a large proportion of CD live. I know you're just trolling, but I thought I would humour you.

what i am saying is axl based his live show on the past and not on his (then) new album as we all know it

 

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19 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Believing facts is an old habit of mine. 

i do that too

 

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1 hour ago, Ralphelmo said:

Pinch harmonics with a bend (attacked quicker though, something like THIS.MP3 ), it's not that easy to hold that note, I'd avoid it either as you can f**k that up very easy :P He plays a regular bend instead. About the second part of your post, you're indeed wrong. You don't have to look very far to finds some pinchin' from Slash: https://youtu.be/NWDnl5dBGzg?t=186
 

 

 

Right on, thanks for the help! :)

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3 hours ago, ludurigan said:

nobody counts LALD and KOHD as GNR songs

but they are on GNR albums

so by your own numbers, its 9 CD songs

Chinese Democracy
Sorry
If The World
Street Of Dreams
IRS
Shackler's Revenge
This I Love
Madagascar
Better

and 13 songs from GNR albums

Welcome To The Jungle
It's So Easy
Mr Brownstone
Live And Let Die
Rocket Queen
You Could Be Mine
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
November Rain
Out Ta Get Me
Sweet Child O' Mine
Nightrain
Patience
Paradise City

including the opener and the closing number

i had no idea that 9 is bigger than 13, but since you said the show was based around Chinese Democracy, I believe you!

not only I believe you but I am very, very interested in learning this "alternate math" where 9 is bigger than 13!

Can you please point me to some good alternate math school were 9 is bigger than 13?

:rofl-lol:

I like how you say "nobody counts those as GNR songs" and then proceed to count them as GNR songs.

I don't know what "alternative math" is, but you seem to be struggling with normal math so let me help you:

11 "classic GNR" songs, and 13 "non-classic GNR" songs. Every CD song is on a GNR album so by your own logic, that's 20 GNR songs and some covers.

 

 

 

Hey guys, if I post this emoji :rofl-lol: a bunch of times, does it make me sound smarter?

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

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This whole discussion is pure nonsense, CD is a GNR album whether you like it or not. You don't have to like the album but you should accept that it was made by the people that were Guns N Roses at that time so it is a GNR album 

 

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6 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I like how you say "nobody counts those as GNR songs" and then proceed to count them as GNR songs.

I don't know what "alternative math" is, but you seem to be struggling with normal math so let me help you:

11 "classic GNR" songs, and 13 "non-classic GNR" songs. Every CD song is on a GNR album so by your own logic, that's 20 GNR songs and some covers.

 

 

 

Hey guys, if I post this emoji :rofl-lol: a bunch of times, does it make me sound smarter?

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

sorry if you can't read

i never said those were GNR songs

I said they were from GNR albums pre Chinese Democracy

i am gonna say it again so maybe you will understand

Axl Rose setlist from the show you mentioned has 9 Chinese Democracy songs, the (then) NEW album

And it has 13 songs from Guns n Roses albums pre Chinese Democracy, from THE PAST, and 11 of those are original GNR songs and 2 are songs that GNR recorded and played heavily on past tours

So yeah, either way you look at it, 13 or 11, there are more songs from the past then songs from the then current album

 

Just now, SAU3R said:

This whole discussion is pure nonsense, CD is a GNR album whether you like it or not. You don't have to like the album but you should accept that it was made by the people that were Guns N Roses at that time so it is a GNR album 

 

you are free to believe that, a lot of people share your opinion

some people think differently and see that album as an Axl Rose solo album

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6 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

sorry if you can't read

i never said those were GNR songs

I said they were from GNR albums pre Chinese Democracy

i am gonna say it again so maybe you will understand

Axl Rose setlist from the show you mentioned has 9 Chinese Democracy songs, the (then) NEW album

And it has 13 songs from Guns n Roses albums pre Chinese Democracy, from THE PAST, and 11 of those are original GNR songs and 2 are songs that GNR recorded and played heavily on past tours

So yeah, either way you look at it, 13 or 11, there are more songs from the past then songs from the then current album

You specifically said, on the first page in this thread, "Axl never remotely based the set around his [CD] songs". You've been proven wrong by both the fact that CD was the most heavily featured album, and the number of 'classic songs' was lower than the 'non-classic' songs. And if you're gonna include LALD and KOHD among the 'classic songs' then I'm gonna include 'Ballad of Death' etc as 'new' songs, which brings the count to 12 CD-era songs, 11 classic-era songs, and 6 covers (4 songs + Axl and Dizzy's piano solos).

Wanna keep doing mental gymnastics, or can we finally admit that the tour in question was actually based around that era of the band? Why are you so desperate to stick to your gimmick?

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4 hours ago, ludurigan said:

yeah, its all misinterpretation, so sorry for not interpreting that quote as it should!

now please let me know how is that you get access to axl's mind to know first hand what he really means when he says something!

:rofl-lol:

what i am saying is axl based his live show on the past and not on his (then) new album as we all know it

 

Sorry to disappoint, but I based my comment on things I've heard Axl say... No mind reading.

Yep definitely based on the past😒 as in huge video screens and stage design with CD designs. 

Look, he still used the old material... Duh! But he was building on top of it, not standing still and working solely on nostalgia. You may have an argument if GNR went out and played 1 maybe 2 songs, and never played any further songs from the album. The fact that we've heard every song from the CD album live, and that if you go to any GNR concert you will hear somewhere between 3-10 out of 14 songs from CD shows you that since the release CD has been the focus, if it wasn't those songs would be well and truly dropped!

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3 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

You specifically said, on the first page in this thread, "Axl never remotely based the set around his [CD] songs". You've been proven wrong by both the fact that CD was the most heavily featured album, and the number of 'classic songs' was lower than the 'non-classic' songs. And if you're gonna include LALD and KOHD among the 'classic songs' then I'm gonna include 'Ballad of Death' etc as 'new' songs, which brings the count to 12 CD-era songs, 11 classic-era songs, and 6 covers (4 songs + Axl and Dizzy's piano solos).

Wanna keep doing mental gymnastics, or can we finally admit that the tour in question was actually based around that era of the band? Why are you so desperate to stick to your gimmick?

yes i stand by what i said

axl has never based any of his live performances on Chinese Democracy, it was always based on THE PAST

was there a few years when he may have played 7 or 8 or 9 CD songs on the shows?

YES

and on the very same shows that he did that he ALWAYS played 10 or 11 or 12 or 13 songs from THE PAST

there is no way around it

the past was the most featured thing on all axl rose setlists since 2001

if you wanna say to me that 7 or 8 or 9 is more than 10 or 11 or 12 or 13, then there is nothing I can do to help you!

3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Sorry to disappoint, but I based my comment on things I've heard Axl say... No mind reading.

Yep definitely based on the past😒 as in huge video screens and stage design with CD designs. 

Look, he still used the old material... Duh! But he was building on top of it, not standing still and working solely on nostalgia. You may have an argument if GNR went out and played 1 maybe 2 songs, and never played any further songs from the album. The fact that we've heard every song from the CD album live, and that if you go to any GNR concert you will hear somewhere between 3-10 out of 14 songs from CD shows you that since the release CD has been the focus, if it wasn't those songs would be well and truly dropped!

he didnt just "used the old material"

there was MORE old material than CD songs on EVERY SHOW that Axl Rose ever did since 2001

just check ANY SETLIST

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Kind of on topic.

When I listen to NITL recordings, Estranged is not among them.

Song sounds terrible, and has for some time.

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5 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

Kind of on topic.

When I listen to NITL recordings, Estranged is not among them.

Song sounds terrible, and has for some time.

Yep, when it first returned to the set a few years ago it was decent, but now it's really not a great song live... And it used to be. That's down to Axl not really nailing it, and the band barreling through the arrangement, not taking their time with it like they should... Some songs should be all out rockers played to the tilt, others should be be more relaxed and behind the beat.

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54 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Yep, when it first returned to the set a few years ago it was decent, but now it's really not a great song live... And it used to be. That's down to Axl not really nailing it, and the band barreling through the arrangement, not taking their time with it like they should... Some songs should be all out rockers played to the tilt, others should be be more relaxed and behind the beat.

Plus, like someone mentioned earlier, it needs to be at the END of the show. Right before Paradise. Not the 5th or 6th song haha. Drags the show to a halt. One thing i've always like about the UYI shows was the fact they always seem to read the crowd. 

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It could be one of those songs that fans love but bands don't love to play.  It's not exactly a straightforward song with a few changes in key signatures and with no overarching structure.  I think its one of those songs that you have to be mindful of the whole time and hence not something you can necessarily get lost into like a more straightforward song.

There were and still are a number of songs by GNR that don't get much love that I'm sure die hard fans would love to hear.  One of them has always been Locomotive.  Prior to NITL, Coma was another.  

I think Estranged appearing again in the set was in some form a gesture to the fans by Axl.  The setlists in NITL is sort of a love letter to fans with songs like Estranged and Coma, that never got played a whole lot back in the Illusions tours, getting steady play for fans who love the songs but never got a chance to hear them live.  Estranged re-appeared in the set around the time when GNR had kind of turned the corner on CD material and recommitted itself to its entire discography (with notable exceptions).  

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I can’t say Estranged sounded that bad in London 2017 at all but then again I though they were top notch for that gig. Did they play Dead Horse at all during the tour? A great tune.

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22 hours ago, ludurigan said:

what i am saying is axl based his live show on the past and not on his (then) new album as we all know it

 

Do you ever go and see other bands tour when they release new albums? They don't usually play the new album in its entirety plus a few hits, so I'm not sure what your point is. The bands I've seen do that over the years usually get criticized when they do it (Dream Theater, Europe, Maiden etc)..

Anyway, you sound disappointed Axl didn't play Chinese Democracy every night plus an hour or so of other songs. If That's the case, we can actually agree on that 😂

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41 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

I can’t say Estranged sounded that bad in London 2017 at all but then again I though they were top notch for that gig. Did they play Dead Horse at all during the tour? A great tune.

I'm almost 100% sure Dead Horse hasn't been played on the tour. I would gladly replace most of the songs in the set for it myself. 

My dream was always to see DTJ, Coma, Estranged, Perfect Crime, Dead Horse, Back off Bitch & Locomotive live (from the old songs). 4 more to go!

Oh, and a live Get In The Ring with Axl rant would quite possibly top all of those!

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@downzy Agree with everything you say. I definitely think Estranged is better from a fan's point of view than for the band playing it. The rhythm/tempo is fairly repetitive with lots of gaps/soft parts. It's not Nightrain or Paradise City (to play I mean). I also think Estranged and Coma are a gesture to us die-hards, and I love them for it. 

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32 minutes ago, DeathCubeUK said:

I'm almost 100% sure Dead Horse hasn't been played on the tour. I would gladly replace most of the songs in the set for it myself. 

My dream was always to see DTJ, Coma, Estranged, Perfect Crime, Dead Horse, Back off Bitch & Locomotive live (from the old songs). 4 more to go!

Oh, and a live Get In The Ring with Axl rant would quite possibly top all of those!

GET IN THE RING about nowadays subject , yes , would be funny :D

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Gilby talks about how Estranged can be boring and challenging to play during the "Estranged Making the F'n Videos".

I personally never want to a show going forward that they don't play it. 

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Its my favorite GNR song

All I know is I was ecstatic to hear it on the 2011 Rio live stream, psyched to hear it for the first time in person in 2011, and being there for that first rendition in years Vegas 2016 was MAGIC

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10 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Its my favorite GNR song

All I know is I was ecstatic to hear it on the 2011 Rio live stream, psyched to hear it for the first time in person in 2011, and being there for that first rendition in years Vegas 2016 was MAGIC

I don't even count the versions played without Slash as having happened. That song needs him.

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