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2 minutes ago, James Bond said:

I wonder if Chuck Berry used Logic.

If you're talking about the later stuff from the 200s until he died most likely 

 

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Yes but I doubt they then returned to those same guitar overdubs to cut out micro pieces (say a note), replacing them with new new micro pieces. I also doubt that somebody else other than the writer of the guitar solo (replicating W. Axl Rose's role) did this against the wishes of the guitarist.

You do realise what you had to to in order to copy and paste before the digital age? You had to physically splice together reels. 

  You may be right about that. but the technology they had back then was limited so they still were able to change stuff but nowadays you can do anything you want to achieve your vision.Yes and if you read what I said I literally mention them sitting at the tape deck cutting and glueing.

  Within a few years no records will be made with tape. Hell, even Slash who is the biggest fan of Analog had to finally use Pro Tools. Because it's so fucking expensive and hard to find and B so he can get the perfect solo by whatever means necessary.

 The recording process is so much easier and more accessible today then it was even 30 years ago. You can make an entire Rock N' Roll opera on your computer with just a guitar and bass. There are so many good midi and vst programs now you can have a song with your Guitar, Bass, and Vocal being real and the Drums, Strings, Horn's choir keys, etc being virtual. If you mix it right nobody will be able to till whats Analog and whats Digital you don't have to have millions of dollars or even $100,000 budgets or income to make a fantastic sounding record anymore. In my opinion, that's awesome. However, there is also nothing better than a good old fashion AC/DC or Simple Rock Band going in. Live they may be using real 100 Watt Marshall Plexis and Ampeg VST. But in the Studio they could be using Amplitube, Fractals, Kempers Line 6, etc  you can literally spend hours and years finding out 

 But the technology is so good we won't even know the difference. I can't wait to be able to afford my first Tube Guitar amp but for now, I can roll down my volume on the guitar and my Mustang GT40 will clean up if I roll it up it's more saturated and I can tell the difference between my fingers and pick.  Nothing is 100% analog anymore in some ways its sad but if you are able to get the right stuff and actually know what your doing it literally will not sound different.  

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What Brian May said in 2000:

Quote

 

MAH: How do you deal with somebody like Axl though, when he sits you down and says: "Listen to all of this." I mean, can you really critique him and sit there and say: "Do you know what, Axl, that's rubbish mate. You wanna bin that one!!"?

Brian May: Well (sigh) Axl sort of holds Queen and, and our whole thing in a great deal of respect so I always figure as long as I tell my truth, he's fine - and, and its always held out so far. He's always been very good, you know, to me. He will tell you if he doesn't agree what, with what you say. I mean, I went in and immediately, you know, Brian May opens his mouth and "Blab, blab, blab" - and I told exactly what I thought of, of the stuff as it was and some of it he went "Yeah", and some of it he went "I couldn't do that" - you know like some of the suggestions you know and that's it, and Axl's a very emotionally kind of 'connected' person, I mean, to the point where he, he's so intense about EVERY single note that's on there, and the solos that I played, um, he was totally into it VERY much in the way that Freddie used to be. You know, Freddie used to go through my solos and, and say "You know there's this particular note here and I think if you did this and this and this", you know and I thought I would just go in there... I'd forgotten, you know, what Axl was like, and I thought I would just go in there and he'd like it. He did like it, but he wanted to get into EVERY single take of every single note, and sort of string, you know ... I would go in there and he, from, from one day to another, Axl would have been in there like from 5 o'clock in the morning to 7 o'clock in the morning, comping little bits of my solos and saying "Can you get Brian to try this?" You know, he's UTTERLY meticulous.

MAH: That's amazing. So what's your position? You've just played this amazing solo as far as you're concerned and Axl comes along and says: "Do you know what, I really don't like that B flat or whatever it is. Can you just change that?" Do you, do you say...

Brian May: Oh I'm fine - I don't care - you know, because I'm there to to deliver, you know. And in in this context, I'm, I'm a session player, you know and, and people can take what they want, it doesn't bother me. I'll give me best, you know, and if someone will make a comment, generally it will be - you know if someone makes a comment to you about your playing, and it's someone who cares, and then its probably gonna do you some good whether you like it or not. So I'm always open to that stuff - always.

MAH: Mm - very interesting.

Brian May: There's always room for improvements.

https://brianmay.com/brian/radio/radioone10may00/radioone10may00.html

And in 2008, after Axl's forum chats:

Quote

 

"Well, a lot of people have been asking about me and Axl.

It's very simple really ... Axl is making his record, and he can do whatever he wants ! After all these years I'm still a huge fan.

It was such a long time ago, it tends to recede into the mists of time, for me ... I certainly don't remember anything about disapproving of any 'comping' Sean Beavan had done - I remember it, I had actually comped it up with him myself. Of course, soon afterwards, Sean was taken off the project, although I have to say I thought the tracks were overall sounding bloody good at that time! I'm not sure if we know where the version that was 'leaked' to the public came from. I have my own rough mixes, which I took away at the time for the purposes of working on the stuff further if necessary, but nobody but me has ever heard those. I kept them totally private, because that's the professional way to be. I actually played on three tracks.

The scenario was very different from what folk-lore seems to be embroidering it into. So maybe I ought to say something ...

What happened, the way I remember it, was this. I had been on tour with GN'R, and had a very good relationship with them ... they were much kinder to me than they needed to be, as a support artist to them as they toured the USA and Europe. We had some great times. People will recall that GN'R also guested at our Freddie tribute concert, at the good old Wembley Stadium, as it was then. They did an amazing job on Dylan's 'Knocking on Heaven's Door', and they donated all the proceeds of their live recording to the newly-founded Mercury Phoenix Trust - that's a nice answer to anyone who accuses GN'R of being anti-gay.

Well, some time later, once I was back home, Axl phoned me up, out of the blue, and told me he felt he was losing his way over guitars on the tracks on the album, and asked me if I would come over for a couple of days to LA and have look. The idea was not that I become part of the band! It was more about me coming in as a friend, giving what I could to the project, as an objective outside opinion, and doing a bit of guitar playing as well. I said I'd be very happy to do that. His people booked me on plane, and I arrived a couple of days later. It was fun. Axl came down to the studio from his house, where he was also working in parallel on other stuff in his home studio, and, with Sean, played about 20 tracks to me ... pretty much almost the whole album as it stood at that time. That's a lot of listening time! But it was all fascinating. My comments were mainly appreciations, and reassurances, and I liked most of the guitar that was already on there, but I remember having strong 'producorial' feelings about making sure Axl's great vocals didn't get swamped in too much guitar ornamentation.

Then I played some guitar ... working with Sean. Over the next couple of days I went in and spent most of day there, trying things out on various tracks. Axl actually stayed away from that time on, getting Sean to take up rough mixes of what we'd been doing each night, and sending back appreciative comments. Then I went home!

Oh .. we also had a nice evening having dinner up at Axl's home, with a few friends and record company guys, during which Axl played everybody a whole bunch of tracks that were NOT already on the album ... which he had been working on separately. It was evidently already a mammoth project.

In my mind, I gave it a small piece of my life, without any thought of getting anything back, except the feeling that I'd contributed a little to the journey of the album project. I didn't ask to be paid, or even credited, and I certainly didn't put any constraints on whether the guys had to use my work or not.

I'm totally relaxed about the outcome, as I always was, and I hope that Axl will now feel liberated, by the final emergence of his magnum opus, to move on, and get back out there where we all want him to be, rockin' around the world..."

http://bravewords.com/news/queens-brian-may-comments-on-axl-rose-snub-reports-im-totally-relaxed-about-the-outcome

 

 

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I'm in a band. We are recording an album. My solos are still the take I play. We dont splice them up

I did record with someone in college who did that to my playing though. It was his project and it still was good, just a different process

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Just now, ZoSoRose said:

I'm in a band. We are recording an album. My solos are still the take I play. We dont splice them up

I did record with someone in college who did that to my playing though. It was his project and it still was good, just a different process

When I have timing issues i usually make very small cuts. Depending on the song length I usually do it once and re-recorded it if it's not good enough. But if it's a long song with multiple solos I usually do multiple takes at different parts of the song if that's what it requires  and maybe splice if its needed

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44 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

  You may be right about that. but the technology they had back then was limited so they still were able to change stuff but nowadays you can do anything you want to achieve your vision.Yes and if you read what I said I literally mention them sitting at the tape deck cutting and glueing.

  Within a few years no records will be made with tape. Hell, even Slash who is the biggest fan of Analog had to finally use Pro Tools. Because it's so fucking expensive and hard to find and B so he can get the perfect solo by whatever means necessary.

 The recording process is so much easier and more accessible today then it was even 30 years ago. You can make an entire Rock N' Roll opera on your computer with just a guitar and bass. There are so many good midi and vst programs now you can have a song with your Guitar, Bass, and Vocal being real and the Drums, Strings, Horn's choir keys, etc being virtual. If you mix it right nobody will be able to till whats Analog and whats Digital you don't have to have millions of dollars or even $100,000 budgets or income to make a fantastic sounding record anymore. In my opinion, that's awesome. However, there is also nothing better than a good old fashion AC/DC or Simple Rock Band going in. Live they may be using real 100 Watt Marshall Plexis and Ampeg VST. But in the Studio they could be using Amplitube, Fractals, Kempers Line 6, etc  you can literally spend hours and years finding out 

 But the technology is so good we won't even know the difference. I can't wait to be able to afford my first Tube Guitar amp but for now, I can roll down my volume on the guitar and my Mustang GT40 will clean up if I roll it up it's more saturated and I can tell the difference between my fingers and pick.  Nothing is 100% analog anymore in some ways its sad but if you are able to get the right stuff and actually know what your doing it literally will not sound different.  

With pro-tools you do have the option to do this, and I'm sure some modern bands have excised it, however, for the hard rock/rock n' roll genre I think it is a travesty. If you listen to the great rock albums, from Exile to Appetite, you can hear little mistakes and pick noises. Even in more studio sophisticated bands like Queen and The Beatles this is so. Good rock should be live and raw.

Besides, you are going to have to play that solo live at some stage so what is the sense of splicing together some ''Frankenstein'' to cover your deficiencies in the studio when you are only going to be tested on a stage? 

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41 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

With pro-tools you do have the option to do this, and I'm sure some modern bands have excised it, however, for the hard rock/rock n' roll genre I think it is a travesty. If you listen to the great rock albums, from Exile to Appetite, you can hear little mistakes and pick noises. Even in more studio sophisticated bands like Queen and The Beatles this is so. Good rock should be live and raw.

Besides, you are going to have to play that solo live at some stage so what is the sense of splicing together some ''Frankenstein'' to cover your deficiencies in the studio when you are only going to be tested on a stage? 

Different people prefer different things. The great thing about music IMO is that we are always left with questions because of that. Music is to whatever a person is. Some of it only the Artist knows why. That's what makes it good because it gets people talking about why they did this or what does that mean.  Pro Tools is just another way to get your ideas down and mold your artistic vision.  Music shouldn't always be straightforward 4/4. Artists always through things in just for themselves.  We just consume the product they put out and connect to it how we want. What you may view as a travesty some may view as another tool for creativity. Because that's why its called art it means different things to different people. If your a music historian all of this creativity really started with Les Paul.  Music has always been evolving and expanding you can really start to see that with the invention of the tape recorder and you can see how it started with Les Paul without him you dont have the multitrack tape recorder.

Without the Multi-Track Tape Recorder you don't get Revolver and Sgt Pepper, Without Sergent Peper and Hendrix you don't get guitar pedals. Without guitar pedals, you don't get synthesizers 

 

It's always evolving and more and more creativity is allowed if you study it in depth you can see the tree of Technology that got us Pro Tools. Pink Floyd, Queen the Beatles. without them experimenting with Synythsisers and creating more room for tracks you don't get the Illusions and you don't get Pro Tools and you are not able to get all these songs people know and love from all genres. Each Generation is always improving on what the Previous generation fo artist did

That is basically the essence of it and people are more positive of CD now than 5 to 12 years ago and I am pretty sure Slash and Duff wanted to acknowledge that part of Guns N Roses history and to Axl seeing Slash and Duff play CD  songs is a giant victory lap and vindication for him which is why he wants to sing Slither now as a thank you for Slash and Duff  for acknowledging and playing songs the album he sacrificed everything for, It always down to what an artist wants and how people connect to it. If you like straight forward Rock that's great. If you like something more experimental that's also good.aif you like every type of music that's fantastic. Music is basically like a religion different people have different reasons and you can debate but you should never act superior because everyone is their own person with their own thoughts

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Brian May always speaks with a lot of respect, sometimes I feel like he's being too nice. But that's him. Hearing him talk about Freddie, even after all these years, gives me goosebumps sometimes. 

But it seems like he really was digging the stuff Axl had done up to that point. CD is nothing like what he had back in 1999.

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27 minutes ago, UcudBmine said:

Brian May always speaks with a lot of respect, sometimes I feel like he's being too nice. But that's him. Hearing him talk about Freddie, even after all these years, gives me goosebumps sometimes. 

But it seems like he really was digging the stuff Axl had done up to that point. CD is nothing like what he had back in 1999.

The closest thing we have to CD at that time are the Village leaks. And some of that are the old Beaven mixes. So that's pretty close to where it was when Axl and Brian sat down. And tbh, I'd be damn impressed with that too. As raw material. Moby also spoke highly of the stuff GnR was doing with loops. Honestly, CD was shaping up to be pretty damn amazing before it all turned to shit. 

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In my opinion its pretty weird that Axl, Elton and Queen didnt record an album in the late 90s...since AXL/DC we know that Axl was open to work with his favourite bands and artists.

And since he wanted to create a supergroup with Trent and Grohl in the mid 90s, Roger and Brian would have been the other 2 who would have made sense. Even more with the fact that RTB was mixing CD...

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Creed said:

In my opinion its pretty weird that Axl, Elton and Queen didnt record an album in the late 90s...since AXL/DC we know that Axl was open to work with his favourite bands and artists.

And since he wanted to create a supergroup with Trent and Grohl in the mid 90s, Roger and Brian would have been the other 2 who would have made sense. Even more with the fact that RTB was mixing CD...

 

 

 

Axl should have just rested the GNR name for a decade, and just put a solo record out. Similar to slash and friends from 2010....it probably would have gotten more of a green light from the record company.

Edited by Sydney Fan

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22 hours ago, CAFC Nick said:

Which bit are you referring to specifically? Never noticed an editing mistake on the final Catcher. Funny though finally having the good-quality Brian May version has made the final album version completely unlistenable for me.

You can hear it at 5:31. It's a take that clearly was extended, but Axl and Caram wanted to cut it there and didnt bother to properly finish it. 

I'm actually learning how to play Bumble's solos now and I don't think they are bad. Brian May version just sounds more polished and well thought, though.

20 hours ago, WhazUp said:

As a guitar player, I know that if I was to have a solo comped from various takes and copy/pasted together I at least would want to have a part in the creative decision since it was my playing lol.  So I wouldn't doubt that May was maybe initially a bit taken aback by the fact that what he heard was a big deviation from anything he did as a whole

Maybe. But then again, he was invited as a session/guest musician. 

The thing is that if you're writing a solo, and you actually think two separated parts of two takes could work together, that's fine. But to actually write a solo in a Pro Tools grid is way worse. From what I could hear in the final album, though, that wasn't really the case. You can hear Bucket's ending solo in Scraped comped together with very different guitar tones in each take. Sounds frankenstein-ish, but it's not bad IMO. 

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It's not insanity to comp a solo. The solo on Comfortably Numb, one of the most iconic of all time, was comped from five or six takes: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/david_gilmour_how_i_recorded_comfortably_numb_guitar_solo.html

I'm pretty sure Buckethead's widely praised TWAT solo was comped from different tracks since there was a shorter version on one of the leaks.

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1 hour ago, Amir said:

I'm pretty sure Buckethead's widely praised TWAT solo was comped from different tracks since there was a shorter version on one of the leaks.

I'm sure you're right. The solo is basically a series of 4 bars segments of Bucket's cliches licks. But the shorter version could just be a radio-edit thing. 

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On 3/2/2020 at 5:30 AM, Sydney Fan said:

Axl should have just rested the GNR name for a decade, and just put a solo record out. Similar to slash and friends from 2010....it probably would have gotten more of a green light from the record company.

Out of likes but I just wanted to say that I agree with this!

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Posted (edited)

As we have fuck all to talk about for months, i'm resurrecting this to discuss the recent rehearsal. I think the intro that has been reconstructed by Duff and Slash is infinitely better than the intro in this leak. I love the classic bass line and Slash's alterations on the lead. With the new intro, it is immediately identifiable as a GNR song - it has me excited to hear the studio version and/or a live version soon. I think Axl's vocals were poor, obviously given it was a rehearsal, but it would be interesting to see if Axl re-recorded it at all.

Edited by Live Like a Suicide

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8 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

As we have fuck all to talk about for months, i'm resurrecting this to discuss the recent rehearsal. I think the intro that has been reconstructed by Duff and Slash is infinitely better than the intro in this leak. With that intro, it is immediately identifiable as a GNR song. It has me excited to hear the studio version and/or a live version soon. I think Axl's vocals were poor, obviously given it was a rehearsal, but it would be interesting to see if Axl re-recorded it at all.

Slash can not improve anything done by Buckethead

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5 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

Is the intro to Hardschool done by Buckethead?

Good question. It sounds a bit like him, but I don't think it's his style. 

The new intro sounds like a shorter version, with maybe just Duff's bass and Frank. But it's just an assumption, maybe there's still that little intro before the drums really kick in. 

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No way is the intro on the leak from Buckethead. That has to be Finck/Tobias.

And yeah, I agree that the new intro from Slash/Duff sounds a thousand times better!

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On 02/03/2020 at 12:27 AM, Gibsonfender2323 said:

people are more positive of CD now

what

On 02/03/2020 at 12:27 AM, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Axl seeing Slash and Duff play CD  songs is a giant victory lap and vindication for him

what

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On 01/03/2020 at 10:55 PM, Blackstar said:

What Brian May said in 2000:

And in 2008, after Axl's forum chats:

 

translation to english language

look, i like axl, he asked me to help him, i tried my best, i told him this and that, but sometimes that is no use, sometimes you just got to let people crash on the wall, they need to crash on that wall so they can learn for themselves

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5 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

As we have fuck all to talk about for months, i'm resurrecting this to discuss the recent rehearsal. I think the intro that has been reconstructed by Duff and Slash is infinitely better than the intro in this leak. I love the classic bass line and Slash's alterations on the lead. With the new intro, it is immediately identifiable as a GNR song - it has me excited to hear the studio version and/or a live version soon. I think Axl's vocals were poor, obviously given it was a rehearsal, but it would be interesting to see if Axl re-recorded it at all.

the original intro is very poor, there is no dynamics, no drama, no crescendo, it is just boring

i didnt listen to the new intro but it should not be that hard to come up with a better one

 

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5 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

As we have fuck all to talk about for months, i'm resurrecting this to discuss the recent rehearsal. I think the intro that has been reconstructed by Duff and Slash is infinitely better than the intro in this leak. I love the classic bass line and Slash's alterations on the lead. With the new intro, it is immediately identifiable as a GNR song - it has me excited to hear the studio version and/or a live version soon. I think Axl's vocals were poor, obviously given it was a rehearsal, but it would be interesting to see if Axl re-recorded it at all.

I agree, the new intro was much, much better and toon it up a notch in my eyes. I hope Axl hasn’t re recorded (unless he did in 06 or 10) because his current vocals I think would not do this song justice at all. I was surprised how much the first two lines of the rehearsal sounded like he did in ‘99! I think if he practiced this more it could sound close-ish to the ‘studio’ version.

This was an alt that was rehearsed for the 2019 tour. It was on the main set list for the Super Bowl show but wasn’t played, and it was rehearsed with Axl vocals at Saturday’s show. I think it’s almost a guarentee at this point we will hear this song live. Whether it is a single or kickstarts an album, who knows, but I think in terms of it being played, it’s just a matter of when, and not if.

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