2018 CD Leaks Discussion Thread **NO LINKS, NO ASKING / HINTING FOR LEAKS**

[Amir]

4 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I still think Sorry, at least instrumentally, dates back to 1999. When Brain talks about re-recording Josh's parts he's mentioned "7-minute songs with drum solos at the end", Sorry is over 6 mins so not hard to believe he's talking about Sorry IMO.

I doubt it, since Brain and Scaturro have writing credits on it as with Shackler's. Also, looking at this again:

"B. Head cd" seems to be a reference to Buckethead CDs that I guess he handed in to be mixed. REAL DOLL.com, Shackler's Revenge, and I'm Sorry are all from these CDs, so I'm guessing I'm Sorry became Sorry, especially since the track length is only 14 seconds different from the final album version (and the intro on that is about 12 seconds long...). Who knows what REAL DOLL.com ended up being, though 

[jimisbatman]

On 30/08/2019 at 2:32 AM, rocknroll41 said:

Atlas (w/ May), Perhaps (w/ May), Silkworms (old chorus version), and (technically) the old single-version of OMG.

Is there a better sounding OMG out there? Why does the soundtrack version sound so low quality? 

[Flayer]

32 minutes ago, vloors said:

Really want to hear that PRL song now. Especially if its good enough for a album title track.

Well Chinese Democracy the song was certainly one of the weaker tracks on its own album, but we can still hope.

[Gackt]

10 minutes ago, jimisbatman said:

Is there a better sounding OMG out there? Why does the soundtrack version sound so low quality? 

The version of OMG on End of Days is supposedly just a demo, and the final product would have shown up on the album.
Would have loved hearing the NITL line-up actually perform it after seeing it on their list of alternates.

[DeadSlash]

24 minutes ago, Gackt said:

The version of OMG on End of Days is supposedly just a demo, and the final product would have shown up on the album.
Would have loved hearing the NITL line-up actually perform it after seeing it on their list of alternates.

I can't see it with the tone Axl used for pretty much all of the NITL tour.  I don't think that would have sounded that great.

[rocknroll41]

38 minutes ago, jimisbatman said:

Is there a better sounding OMG out there? Why does the soundtrack version sound so low quality? 

The soundtrack version is just a demo that the label forced out as a means of showing everyone “hey people, GnR still exists!”

there is a higher-quality version with some extra effects, a new lead guitar track from bumble, and a “stripped down” bridge where axl’s vocals are just over a drum machine loop and nothing else. It leaked last year.

49 minutes ago, Amir said:

I doubt it, since Brain and Scaturro have writing credits on it as with Shackler's. Also, looking at this again:

"B. Head cd" seems to be a reference to Buckethead CDs that I guess he handed in to be mixed. REAL DOLL.com, Shackler's Revenge, and I'm Sorry are all from these CDs, so I'm guessing I'm Sorry became Sorry, especially since the track length is only 14 seconds different from the final album version (and the intro on that is about 12 seconds long...). Who knows what REAL DOLL.com ended up being, though 

I bet the title Real Doll Dot Com is inspired by the porn bucket demanded he’d be able to watch while recording in his chicken coop studio.

[Amir]

If the World is an interesting one since it's in the overlap between Beavan and Brain.

The "initial production" credits from the album are a good insight into what was recorded when (also interesting to see Street of Dreams was called Stardust at one point, and Sorry was Sorry for You):

So the initial vocal tracks for the following were all recorded by Beavan between '98-'00:

1. Chinese Democracy

4. Street of dreams

5. If the World

6. There Was A Time

9. Riad N' The Bedouins

11. I.R.S.

12. Madagascar

14. Prostitute

I guess the changed verse/backing vocals for ChiDem, added outro lyrics to SoD, and backing vocals for TWAT were likely recorded by Caram. Madagascar and Prostitute look like the oldest tracks due to Youth's involvement. Sorry and Shackler's came with Bucket + Brain + Scaturro, and Scraped came about with Caram.

[Amir]

It's also interesting to see that Paul Tobias doesn't have any credits for 

2. Shackler's Revenge

8. Scraped

10. Sorry

13. This I Love

He was still in the band in '01 when the early versions of Shackler's and Sorry were born, but I guess they were mostly just Bucket n' Brain at that point.

[Amir]

Axl didn't lay vocals down for Shackler's until 2007, I'm guessing Sorry, Scraped and TIL didn't get vocals until around '06/'07 either. Crazy to think how they went back and forth between thirty-odd songs.

[NOVEMBER COMA]

23 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Yeah I don’t see Silkworms, Going Down, or OMG ever making it onto a record at this point, which is fine imo. Make room for other songs!

Then why all the talk about Hardschool & Atlas? These are songs from decades ago. If the new album has guitar parts from anyone but Slash, Richard or Duff I will be pissed. 

[Amir]

Looking at the same page in the Grenade booklet, Stardust and Sorry for You are correctly named as Street of Dreams and Sorry... but somehow Shackler's got misspelled ("Shakler's")

[Lethalis]

11 hours ago, Jordan Rose said:

18 fucking years ago Axl was talking about The General being on CD1 and CD 2 being called PRL. 

And now he's nearly 60 and doesn't stand much chance of doing justice to any of this shit live. 

It's depressing isn't it?

It actually makes me wonder why I still care at all.

And everytime I actually hear a leak or a song that's new for me, I'm not exactly blown away by the material. It's mostly just "okay".

All this talk about the "big guns" still being unreleased 10 years ago... I'm starting to think the songs on Chinese Democracy were actually his best songs. When you think about it, why wouldn't he release his best material? He had something to prove...

Even though I'm still here, for some reason I'm starting to believe this is it. Nothing groundbreaking will happen. We might get to hear Thyme or Atlas at some point, but it will be a song from a forgotten era...

Meh.

[zigzagbigbag]

1 hour ago, Lethalis said:

It's depressing isn't it?

It actually makes me wonder why I still care at all.

And everytime I actually hear a leak or a song that's new for me, I'm not exactly blown away by the material. It's mostly just "okay".

All this talk about the "big guns" still being unreleased 10 years ago... I'm starting to think the songs on Chinese Democracy were actually his best songs. When you think about it, why wouldn't he release his best material? He had something to prove...

Even though I'm still here, for some reason I'm starting to believe this is it. Nothing groundbreaking will happen. We might get to hear Thyme or Atlas at some point, but it will be a song from a forgotten era...

Meh.

Agree. 

I do get that some of you love the CD era and therefore are excited for new leaks. But why on earth all this excitement for this specific song, the General?! Is it just because you know the name of it? 

Why do you expect it to be a killer song? Because of some snippet you heard? Wouldn’t it be released on CD if it’s that good?

By the way, Something similar happened in terms of Noel Gallagher/Oasis. There was this short soundcheck recording of Noel messing around with some tune which seemed to be called Stop the clocks. This was when the myth about this song as this one lost masterpiece started and lasted for years. Oasis even fueld it up by calling their first compilation Stop the clocks. Finally the song saw the light of the day as the last track of Noel‘s first solo record and you know what ... it was boring as hell. It was dropped from the setlist soon and nobody talked about it anymore. I wish you more luck with the General. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by zigzagbigbag

[Lio]

5 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Agree. 

I do get that some of you love the CD era and therefore are excited for new leaks. But why on earth all this excitement for this specific song, the General?! Is it just because you know the name of it? 

Why do you expect it to be a killer song? Because of some snippet you heard? Wouldn’t it be released on CD if it’s that good?

By the way, Something similar happened in terms of Noel Gallagher/Oasis. There was this short soundcheck recording of Noel messing around with some tune which seemed to be called Stop the clocks. This was when the myth about this song as this one lost masterpiece started and lasted for years. Oasis even fueld it up by calling their first compilation Stop the clocks. Finally the song saw the light of the day as the last track of Noel‘s first solo record and you know what ... it was boring as hell. It was dropped from the setlist soon and nobody talked about it anymore. I wish you more luck with the General. 

It's because of stuff that's been said about The General. Axl said it's the sequel to Estranged, which is a fan favourite epic, so obviously people expect a lot from that. And Sebastian Bach and MSL said it was heavy and with mean vocals or something similar.

And it's been said time and time again that Axl wanted to release a trilogy. So it makes sense not to waste all your big guns on one of the three. They withheld Don't Cry to, for example. So The General not being on CD doesn't say anything about its quality. They withheld Hardschool too, and most on here like or love the demo that's leaked.

But of course only the people who have heard it know for sure if it's as great as many expect it to be, and some will like it and others won't.

[guitarpatch]

6 hours ago, Amir said:

Axl didn't lay vocals down for Shackler's until 2007, I'm guessing Sorry, Scraped and TIL didn't get vocals until around '06/'07 either. Crazy to think how they went back and forth between thirty-odd songs.

Having 30 odd songs isn’t unheard of for making an album. Many pick the best that are completed, aren’t repetitive and seem to go together. Recording/working on all 30 plus past a demo stage is though.  If there truly is other A list material that was in completed form, that’s also maniacal 

[D..]

I disagree completely, Hard School is proof all of the best material wasn't included on Chinese. I take HS over Scrap, Riad & If the world any day, by far. Even Shackler.

It may actually be in my top 3 CD era songs as of now.

The General sounds extremely promising from what I've figured the cell phone clip.

Still curious about the rest. I'm just surprised that many songs were actually almost finished by early 2001. This lineup was extremely productive.

[Towelie]

Do we know anything about the writing credits for Hard School? 

[rocknroll41]

6 hours ago, NOVEMBER COMA said:

Then why all the talk about Hardschool & Atlas? These are songs from decades ago. If the new album has guitar parts from anyone but Slash, Richard or Duff I will be pissed. 

It’s probably cause Hardschool and Atlas and The General (from what we can hear of it) sound songs with potential to be genuinely good. The others don’t.

Edited September 3, 2019 by rocknroll41

[Bansidhe]

25 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Do we know anything about the writing credits for Hard School? 

Nothing yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Tobias tune for the most part. 

 

He had a hand in Back Off Bitch and it's not miles away from that in feel. It certainly dates back to when he was in the band in the mid-late 90s although there are some riffs on it which sound like Robin with the suspended chord voicings.

[Jordan Rose]

4 hours ago, Lethalis said:

It's depressing isn't it?

It actually makes me wonder why I still care at all.

And everytime I actually hear a leak or a song that's new for me, I'm not exactly blown away by the material. It's mostly just "okay".

All this talk about the "big guns" still being unreleased 10 years ago... I'm starting to think the songs on Chinese Democracy were actually his best songs. When you think about it, why wouldn't he release his best material? He had something to prove...

Even though I'm still here, for some reason I'm starting to believe this is it. Nothing groundbreaking will happen. We might get to hear Thyme or Atlas at some point, but it will be a song from a forgotten era...

Meh.

Gotta disagree there. In November '08 he said Robin's work in CD2 was done and hoped to release in November 09. We got the tracklist we did because of the leaks. I'm confident CD2 would have been what he said: if you like Chinese you'll like the next. Meaner sections ahead. 

I also think he's likely worked on more in the last decade. But after all the leaks that shit is on lock down. Definitely no way the record company heard let alone have copies of anything. 

Given how much he's compromised and walked back on everything he said (from saying in the 02 letter that working with alumni would be a prison sentence to saying reunion was always an option) I wonder if he's looked back at any point from '99 and thought he could have done anything differently to have gotten stuff out and kept the Bucket, Robin etc lineup together. 

[D..]

6 minutes ago, Jordan Rose said:

Gotta disagree there. In November '08 he said Robin's work in CD2 was done and hoped to release in November 09. We got the tracklist we did because of the leaks. I'm confident CD2 would have been what he said: if you like Chinese you'll like the next. Meaner sections ahead. 

I also think he's likely worked on more in the last decade. But after all the leaks that shit is on lock down. Definitely no way the record company heard let alone have copies of anything. 

Given how much he's compromised and walked back on everything he said (from saying in the 02 letter that working with alumni would be a prison sentence to saying reunion was always an option) I wonder if he's looked back at any point from '99 and thought he could have done anything differently to have gotten stuff out and kept the Bucket, Robin etc lineup together. 

You are a true fan man. Always thought so.

I've had a hard time accepting Axl reuniting. As of now, I don't care for it. Like, I don't give a fuck about the reunion and I have little faith in the upcoming album on technical terms. I'm sure Axl will sound great and I will listen to it day one, but I think the instrumental will be disappointing if Bucket & Robin are left out.

I know it will sound crazy to some people who are more into the appearance than into the true quality of things, but I really don't care for Slash & Duff. I really have no faith in their abilities to write quality material as of 2019. They were relevant in the 80's/early 90's. But times have changed.

Some people will call me crazy but Hard School, as far as I'm concerned, blows away anything I've heard from Slash & Duff material-wise in the last 10 years.

I love the old school GN'R material, but I have to admit I love the CD material more. I'm just very sensitive to Bucket & Robin's abilities, and I find it miraculous those two were ever in the band at the same time, with fucking Axl Rose fronting that band. How crazy is that? Like really? Robin is kicking asses with NIN, but Axl > Trent any fucking day. And I absolutely LOVE Trent. No bias. He's an amazing musician, vocalist and writer. He's even superior to Axl in some ways. But Axl as a whole, is the fucking real deal. 

I really consider Robin & Bucket as better musicians than Slash & Duff, by far.

I remember Axl saying at some point all of this was like comparing football or basketball teams from a certain era and everyone's gonna have their favorite. He was completely spot on. It's exactly what I'm feeling. I've always rooted for a certain CD lineup (with Buckethead & Robin, and now I even prefer having Josh Freese on the drums over Brian Mantia, crazy).

Also, the lyrics, the words... they have a meaning. I don't buy those CD songs when Axl sings them with Slash & Duff. It's obvious to me a lot of what he's written on CD was directed to Slash & Duff. So it makes absolutely no sense to hear Axl sing some CD tracks live next to Slash & Duff, especially a song like "Sorry".

Then again, I'm happy Axl settled things with Slash. It's cool. It gives the right message to a lot of people. For that alone, the reunion had to happen as the world is getting stranger and crazier every day.

But from a pure musical point of view... I feel Axl needed to be angry & disappointed & betrayed to write his best lyrics and sing his best. Just being honest here, I know it sounds harsh.

He's at his best when he's depressed. Which is the case of any true artist. You only write your best material when there's a urge, when you're fucked, when you're desperate, when you're anything but happy.

Given what he's given to us, I prefer for him to be happy and be given mediocre material than the contrary, obviously. But I really hope we get the CD vault at some point. Seems more interesting than anything upcoming/new. And I really don't want to hear Slash replacing Bucket parts, please. He won't cut it. He doesn't have the talent.

And more than that, Slash has been a fucking liar for years. I won't forgive that personally. He has no guts. I can't dissociate the artist from the human being. He's trash.

[rocknroll41]

Song like Anastasia, Bad Rain, You’re A Lie, and World On Fire all kick Hardschool’s ass imo. That’s not to say that Hardschool is bad, mind you, I just don’t like it as much as those other songs I mentioned. It has potential, but needs work, whereas the other songs I mentioned above (Anastasia in particular) have some of the best guitar I’ve ever heard Slash do... duff is probably a shit songwriter these days tho. That I’d probably have to agree with. How To Be A Man has a cool melody, but the lyrics are corny as hell. That song gave me PTSD flashbacks of So Fine!

Edited September 3, 2019 by rocknroll41

[Jordan Rose]

18 minutes ago, D.. said:

You are a true fan man. Always thought so.

I've had a hard time accepting Axl reuniting. As of now, I don't care for it. Like, I don't give a fuck about the reunion and I have little faith in the upcoming album on technical terms. I'm sure Axl will sound great and I will listen to it day one, but I think the instrumental will be disappointing if Bucket & Robin are left out.

I know it will sound crazy to some people who are more into the appearance than into the true quality of things, but I really don't care for Slash & Duff. I really have no faith in their abilities to write quality material as of 2019. They were relevant in the 80's/early 90's. But times have changed.

Some people will call me crazy but Hard School, as far as I'm concerned, blows away anything I've heard from Slash & Duff material-wise in the last 10 years.

I love the old school GN'R material, but I have to admit I love the CD material more. I'm just very sensitive to Bucket & Robin's abilities, and I find it miraculous those two were ever in the band at the same time, with fucking Axl Rose fronting that band. How crazy is that? Like really? Robin is kicking asses with NIN, but Axl > Trent any fucking day. And I absolutely LOVE Trent. No bias. He's an amazing musician, vocalist and writer. He's even superior to Axl in some ways. But Axl as a whole, is the fucking real deal. 

I really consider Robin & Bucket as better musicians than Slash & Duff, by far.

I remember Axl saying at some point all of this was like comparing football or basketball teams from a certain era and everyone's gonna have their favorite. He was completely spot on. It's exactly what I'm feeling. I've always rooted for a certain CD lineup (with Buckethead & Robin, and now I even prefer having Josh Freese on the drums over Brian Mantia, crazy).

Also, the lyrics, the words... they have a meaning. I don't buy those CD songs when Axl sings them with Slash & Duff. It's obvious to me a lot of what he's written on CD was directed to Slash & Duff. So it makes absolutely no sense to hear Axl sing some CD tracks live next to Slash & Duff, especially a song like "Sorry".

Then again, I'm happy Axl settled things with Slash. It's cool. It gives the right message to a lot of people. For that alone, the reunion had to happen as the world is getting stranger and crazier every day.

But from a pure musical point of view... I feel Axl needed to be angry & disappointed & betrayed to write his best lyrics and sing his best. Just being honest here, I know it sounds harsh.

He's at his best when he's depressed. Which is the case of any true artist. You only write your best material when there's a urge, when you're fucked, when you're desperate, when you're anything but happy.

Given what he's given to us, I prefer for him to be happy and be given mediocre material than the contrary, obviously. But I really hope we get the CD vault at some point. Seems more interesting than anything upcoming/new. And I really don't want to hear Slash replacing Bucket parts, please. He won't cut it. He doesn't have the talent.

And more than that, Slash has been a fucking liar for years. I won't forgive that personally. He has no guts. I can't dissociate the artist from the human being. He's trash.

Nice post, i'll second pretty much all of that though the reunion wouldn't bother me if there was new music going on. Because like I said, I don't see another vocal resurrection from Axl and every year that goes by means whatever music we do get ain't gonna sound great live. 

I wish more than anything that Bucket had stayed and Rio/Lisboa '04 had gone ahead with the album out shortly after. Axl. Bucket, Robin and Brain could have done anything. 

[D..]

I think Axl can sound amazing in studio, still. Live, it depends of the show and it depends of the song. He can actually still sound great live. They should shorten the setlists, he clearly can't take 3 hours shows no more, especially when some songs like Coma are so demanding. And it's not like he could ever sing that one properly to begin with, even back in the day. Same goes for You could be mine. I don't know if a human being can sing those songs properly anyway. 

 

@rocknroll41 yeah, but no, all of those Slash songs go from generic/mediocre to okay (Anastasia is cool). Hard School is miles better than any of it. But cool if you prefer Slash material. I'll stick to Hard School personally. Great lyrics, great voice, great instrumental.

[moreblack]

28 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Song like Anastasia, Bad Rain, You’re A Lie, and World On Fire all kick Hardschool’s ass imo. 

Easily IMO

Edited September 3, 2019 by moreblack