Sweersa Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, 19AT5 said: Eh, by what metric are you determining it was a success?! According to UMG, CD sold 2.6 million units worldwide by Feb 2009. It underperformed expectations, but that doesn't mean it's a failure. RIAA certified it platinum, too which doesn't necessary alone mean it was a success, but it helps. Also, the millions spent on the album wasn't all spent on that one album. They have another one too, unreleased. The mythical "CD2" It's a Guns N' Roses album. The same way the Disney Star Wars trilogy are Star Wars movies, regardless of the feelings of butthurt fans. Even if you disagree, the next Guns N' Roses will be the seventh studio album by the band. The next album will probably mostly be CD2 with Slash and Duff on some/most of it. Does that make it a partial GN'R record then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19AT5 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 45 minutes ago, Sweersa said: According to UMG, CD sold 2.6 million units worldwide by Feb 2009. It underperformed expectations, but that doesn't mean it's a failure. RIAA certified it platinum, too which doesn't necessary alone mean it was a success, but it helps. Also, the millions spent on the album wasn't all spent on that one album. They have another one too, unreleased. The mythical "CD2" It's a Guns N' Roses album. The same way the Disney Star Wars trilogy are Star Wars movies, regardless of the feelings of butthurt fans. Even if you disagree, the next Guns N' Roses will be the seventh studio album by the band. The next album will probably mostly be CD2 with Slash and Duff on some/most of it. Does that make it a partial GN'R record then? It sold 2.6 million copies, cost $13 million (and even if you split that over 2 albums, it is still a bloody ridiculous amount to spend for the return), took 15 years to produce, and had a cast larger than The Sound of Music... by any definition that isn't success! I would love to see the investment to return ratio! However, all that said, I think where Axl can claim validation at least, though possibly not success, is that most of the tracks off the album have been played on the reunion tour. That says something, I think. I'm not a ChiDem hater, but conversely I refuse to subscribe to this narrative that it was something more than it is. It was a running joke in the press, the band looked like a pantomime act (during the BH years), and Axl bizarrely had cornrows throughout! None of this is cool! Hahaha! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, 19AT5 said: It sold 2.6 million copies, cost $13 million (and even if you split that over 2 albums, it is still a bloody ridiculous amount to spend for the return), took 15 years to produce, and had a cast larger than The Sound of Music... by any definition that isn't success! I would love to see the investment to return ratio! However, all that said, I think where Axl can claim validation at least, though possibly not success, is that most of the tracks off the album have been played on the reunion tour. That says something, I think. I'm not a ChiDem hater, but conversely I refuse to subscribe to this narrative that it was something more than it is. It was a running joke in the press, the band looked like a pantomime act (during the BH years), and Axl bizarrely had cornrows throughout! None of this is cool! Hahaha! If you only equate sales figures with 'success' then you have a point. Financially no-one could argue it did well. A lot of people base an album's 'success' on other things though and aren't too fussed about what albums they like sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 9 hours ago, betterman said: Nuno Bettencourt of Extreme was interviewed the other day. By the way, their last album was out 2008 (the same as Chinese Democracy) He said that the album was finished and ready to be released march 2020, but was stopped by the pandemic. He said they are a touring band and wants to tour and promote the album on the road. Ha said further that when to world re-opens - lets celebrate it with this new music and that we all can gather on a concert again. It might be that GNR thinks in a similar vein, I believe the album is done! The language Slash used when discussing the process was bery much in the vein of 'work in progress' he was still writing riffs and hoping to get together with band (his words). I don't think it's done, but k think they've shortlisted ideas and have begun the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweersa Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 32 minutes ago, allwaystired said: If you only equate sales figures with 'success' then you have a point. Financially no-one could argue it did well. A lot of people base an album's 'success' on other things though and aren't too fussed about what albums they like sell. So in other words, CD would have been successful if you liked it. Alrighty then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Sweersa said: So in other words, CD would have been successful if you liked it. Alrighty then. Well, as I say, it depends on your definition of 'success'. Some equate success as more than simply a commercial thing. Some see it from a capitalist view. Others from a more artistic point of view. If you're going for the 'success=amount of money made' angle though there's a hell of a lot of truly influential albums and art of all genres that would be regarded as 'unsuccessful'. The Ramones album got to number 111 in the US chart and sold 6000 copies in it's first year. But is regarded as one of the best and most influential albums of all time. An 'unsuccessful' release? Or a 'successful' one? Depends on your criteria. I'd always take the view that if art is genuinely loved by people, no matter the size of the audience, it is a 'success'. Edited March 11, 2021 by allwaystired 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19AT5 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Well, as I say, it depends on your definition of 'success'. Some equate success as more than simply a commercial thing. Some see it from a capitalist view. Others from a more artistic point of view. If you're going for the 'success=amount of money made' angle though there's a hell of a lot of truly influential albums and art of all genres that would be regarded as 'unsuccessful'. I'd always take the view that if art is genuinely loved by people, no matter the size of the audience, it is a 'success'. True. There are albums that haven't been big sellers that have been deemed influential and classics. And there have been albums that have sold mega and are utter stinkers! Chinese Democracy is neither! It's not a stinker album, for sure. At the very least, even if one happens to not like the tunes all that much, the vocals are superb (in my opinion). Appetite For Destruction is a classic and many, many people will have picked up the guitar upon hearing it. Chinese Democracy doesn't have that same appeal... guitar wise anyway, I don't think. Though I'm sure somebody out there has been inspired to play around with sub-bass after hearing Chris Pitman's contributions to CD! As an aside, I have no issue with folk loving albums with odd lineups by big bands. I'm a huge Purple fan and I adore Come Taste The Band with Tommy Bolin on the guitar. I'm a greatest hits Motley fan but think the 1994 album with John Corabi is one of their best! I think the Chili's One Hot Minute album with Dave Navarro on guitar is banging. And... ya get ma point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweersa Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 21 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Well, as I say, it depends on your definition of 'success'. Some equate success as more than simply a commercial thing. Some see it from a capitalist view. Others from a more artistic point of view. If you're going for the 'success=amount of money made' angle though there's a hell of a lot of truly influential albums and art of all genres that would be regarded as 'unsuccessful'. The Ramones album got to number 111 in the US chart and sold 6000 copies in it's first year. But is regarded as one of the best and most influential albums of all time. An 'unsuccessful' release? Or a 'successful' one? Depends on your criteria. I'd always take the view that if art is genuinely loved by people, no matter the size of the audience, it is a 'success'. In this world, I would say most commercially released art (music, movies) etc. are done so to maximize profits. (In many cases this is unfortunate) Star Wars, Marvel, and the like are brands. GN'R is no different. Commercially unsuccessful or less than stellar performing at the box office movies that later get regarded as fantastic film are often referred to as "cult hits" which also applies to music I'm sure. (Though in the case of movies and music, I'm sure even if decades later, they or the rights holder make some money with streaming and physical sales) Sort of like the painter whom goes unnoticed until after their death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendador Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 3/9/2021 at 6:00 PM, Sweersa said: I agree. On 3/9/2021 at 5:51 PM, 19AT5 said: There's a helluva lot of imagining having to go on here really ain't there! 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 hours ago, jackparker123 said: Maybe release proper singles with proper videos? Before, during, and after the albums release, like you'd expect from any big album at the time. And if Axl had come out of hiding and talked to the media, that might have helped. Especially a big TV interview would have been big. The above is basically the bare minimum after the label had spent $14 million or whatever it was on recording and mixing the thing. After the total lack of cooperation from Axl I'm not surprised in the slightest that a follow up never came. I just don't buy that would have paveod the way for hundreds of thousands extra copies sold Oh well it was a thousand years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said: I just don't buy that would have paved the way for hundreds of thousands extra copies sold. Maybe not but would you agree the album may have sold more copies had it been promoted accordingly? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnR Chris Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 23 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said: I just don't buy that would have paveod the way for hundreds of thousands extra copies sold Oh well it was a thousand years ago It would have helped to move *some* of the product. There was no promotion. No accompanying US tour. No videos. No lead singles for radio. No interviews. Literally zero promotion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use Your Delusion 1 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 hours ago, GnR Chris said: It would have helped to move *some* of the product. There was no promotion. No accompanying US tour. No videos. No lead singles for radio. No interviews. Literally zero promotion. Plus the album had basically leaked about 6 months earlier and downloading was rampant back then. Probably cost a few sales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester 524 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 6 hours ago, GnR Chris said: It would have helped to move *some* of the product. There was no promotion. No accompanying US tour. No videos. No lead singles for radio. No interviews. Literally zero promotion. it absolutely would have helped. unless you walked down the right aisle at best buy, you wouldn't have known about the album. 99 percent of my friends (casual fans) didn't know about the album years after it was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Chester 524 said: it absolutely would have helped. unless you walked down the right aisle at best buy, you wouldn't have known about the album. 99 percent of my friends (casual fans) didn't know about the album years after it was released. Most probably because it got forgotten years after. In 2008/2009 they might have known about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumandraisin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Judging from the Better video I'm glad they didn't put out any videos officially. Abysmal. Axl going completely missing as the album came out was the final straw I think, ten years in the making and he does 2 interviews online, comes on the forum and argues with fans and that's it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19AT5 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 hours ago, rumandraisin said: Axl going completely missing as the album came out was the final straw I think, ten years in the making and he does 2 interviews online, comes on the forum and argues with fans and that's it. Ya whaaaaaaaat?! Axl came on this forum?! And argued with fans!? That's amazing! For all the wrong reasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vloors Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, 19AT5 said: Ya whaaaaaaaat?! Axl came on this forum?! And argued with fans!? That's amazing! For all the wrong reasons! Yes look up @Dexter https://www.mygnrforum.com/forum/190-axl-rose-chats-amp-open-letters/ Edited March 12, 2021 by vloors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19AT5 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, vloors said: Yes look up @Dexter https://www.mygnrforum.com/forum/190-axl-rose-chats-amp-open-letters/ Oh man this didn't age too well! But very interesting nonetheless. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester 524 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Free Bird said: Most probably because it got forgotten years after. In 2008/2009 they might have known about it no I was trying to sell my gym buddies on CD the week after it came out. they had no idea. In retrospect, I was hanging out with the wrong crowd. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweersa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Chester 524 said: no I was trying to sell my gym buddies on CD the week after it came out. they had no idea. In retrospect, I was hanging out with the wrong crowd. lol I gave a copy or two away. A buddy of mine at the time actually got into GN'R because of CD. He asked me how many singers were on the album after hearing it. Haha When it was like $1.99 at Best Buy, I bought more to pass out. Apparently the US federal prison system had it too for inmates to listen to, I've heard from more than one prisoner of how it helped them through that ordeal. Sometimes you see comments about that on YouTube for the official CD songs on the GN'R YouTube channel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAxlMorrison Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Just once I’d like to come on this board and see any official news about new music. and I’m not usually one to bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euchre Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, Sweersa said: In this world, I would say most commercially released art (music, movies) etc. are done so to maximize profits. (In many cases this is unfortunate) Star Wars, Marvel, and the like are brands. GN'R is no different. It seems like you are trying to defend GNR here - but you do realise that this is literally the definition of a ‘sell out’ ? BTW - don’t get me wrong, I agree with you, they care much more about $ than musical integrity. Edited March 12, 2021 by Euchre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokingarthur Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, JAxlMorrison said: Just once I’d like to come on this board and see any official news about new music. and I’m not usually one to bitch. Nope, we’re all just waiting for another half-assed interview or some monotonous statement from Fortus regarding how close the album is to being released. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweersa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Euchre said: It seems like you are trying to defend GNR here - but you do realise that this is literally the definition of a ‘sell out’ ? BTW - don’t get me wrong, I agree with you, they care much more about $ than musical integrity. Absolutely, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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