Covid-19 Thread

[Lio]

We have over 90 percent of adults fully vaccinated and most of the 12-17 year olds too. But worst numbers in Europe now (after Greece) and alarming numbers in hospital.

I don't want my 12 year old vaccinated as I don't see the point. So this means she can't go to a musical with her cousins during the holidays and we were refused entry to a pizzeria last week. 

To say that I'm getting pissed off about the whole thing is an understatement. I will be getting my boostershot but I've yet to see evidence about children benefiting from the vaccine. I'm getting a very bad feeling about us being forced to vaccinate our children for apparently no reason at all.

So yeah, I would say a lot of freedom is being taken away from my kid, and this has been going on for almost two years now, with no hope of it getting better.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Lio said:

We have over 90 percent of adults fully vaccinated and most of the 12-17 year olds too. But worst numbers in Europe now (after Greece) and alarming numbers in hospital.

I don't want my 12 year old vaccinated as I don't see the point. So this means she can't go to a musical with her cousins during the holidays and we were refused entry to a pizzeria last week. 

To say that I'm getting pissed off about the whole thing is an understatement. I will be getting my boostershot but I've yet to see evidence about children benefiting from the vaccine. I'm getting a very bad feeling about us being forced to vaccinate our children for apparently no reason at all.

So yeah, I would say a lot of freedom is being taken away from my kid, and this has been going on for almost two years now, with no hope of it getting better.

The reason some countries want to vaccinate children is to stop them spreading the disease. And although the likelihood of your kid getting sick from covid-19 is very small, it gets even smaller after being vaccinated,so that's a nice bonus. 

Why would you not want to vaccinate your kid? 

[SoulMonster]

A bit more on children and Covid-19.

@Lio, I think we can safely assume your kid will get Covid-19 sooner or later. I don't see any way we can eradicate the disease before we've all had it. Unfortunately.

If your kid isn't vaccinated, the likelihood of dying from Covid-19 is about one to three in a million [Children and young people remain at low risk of COVID-19 mortality - The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health]. Those odds are pretty good. Probably more likely to get killed in traffic than from Covid-19, and you won't stop your kid from being a passenger in a car based on those odds, I am sure. So nothing to really worry about, I would say. Kids are just really resilient to this disease

Still, if your kid is vaccinated, the risk of dying from Covid-19 seems to drop by almost 100 times. So it goes from 1-3 in a million to 1-3 in 100 million. Now we are really talking about the likelihood being close to zero. 

So why wouldn't you prefer this extra protection for your kid? Probably because you fear that the vaccine is more dangerous to your kid than the virus. But is it? Well, if we are to believe the recent data published by Pfizer and BioNTech, the vaccine is safe for children, just as it is for adults (Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Positive Topline Results From Pivotal Trial of COVID-19 Vaccine in Children 5 to 11 Years | Pfizer). In the study, about 2,200 children received the vaccine, none of them developed any serious adverse effects.

But death isn't really the only thing here. With kids, it is much more likely that they develop long-term symptoms from Covid-19 infection than dying from it. And the vaccine, naturally, protects against such long-term debilitation and grave effects. With the vaccine, the likelihood of long-term serious adverse effects is much, much lower.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by SoulMonster

[downzy]

48 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I'm sorry for you and your family's loss, but loosely blaming the unvaccinated person... I could just as easily say it was the cousin's husband's fault for not social distancing, and engaging in a close contact sport during a pandemic. 

Like the person earlier complaining about a lack of masks at a Kiss concert, while they are at a fucking concert.

Well, the question becomes whether my cousin's husband was aware that a teammate was unvaccinated.  I don't know the answer to that.  If so, then sure, he does bear some responsibility.  But if the teammate pulled an Aaron Rogers and lied about it, then no, he bears no responsibility.  

[SoulMonster]

I think with Covid-19 vaccination and children it is easy as a parent to think that I don't have to make that choice and all will be as it is. That I can simply close my eyes to it. But it won't go away, things will not remain as they are. My kids are getting Covid-19 at some point (the one who hasn't had it already, that is ). So the choice is, do I want my children to get the virus or to get the vaccine. There are only those two options; it's a binary thing. And this is a decision every parent has to make. It is an active decision. Either Covid-19 or the vaccine. 

All the scientific evidence that we have suggests that Covid-19 is much more dangerous to children than the vaccine. So based on that, the choice is rather simple, in my opinion. 

Some argue that we don't know enough about the effects of the vaccine on kids, especially long-term effects. I tend to argue that we know a whole lot. More than most people seem to think. Another way to counter that argument is pointing out that we know even less about the effects of the virus on children. And again, this isn't a choice between getting vaccinated or not, it is between getting vaccinated or getting Covid-19. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Coma16]

"Do I want my children to get the virus or get the vaccine." Really? Are you really implying that vaccinated people cannot get covid? Come on now....

[SoulMonster]

58 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

"Do I want my children to get the virus or get the vaccine." Really? Are you really implying that vaccinated people cannot get covid? Come on now....

I actually thought about the chance someone would read my post and misunderstand the way you did, but concluded," Nah, that's not gonna happen."  In that sense, you proved me wrong 

What you fail to grasp in my post is that I am of course talking about getting the virus when un-vaccinated. 

[Coma16]

25 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I actually thought about the chance someone would read my post and misunderstand the way you did, but concluded," Nah, that's not gonna happen."  In that sense, you proved me wrong 

What you fail to grasp in my post is that I am of course talking about getting the virus when un-vaccinated. 

Misinformation is dangerous.

[Sweersa]

39 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I actually thought about the chance someone would read my post and misunderstand the way you did, but concluded," Nah, that's not gonna happen."  In that sense, you proved me wrong 

What you fail to grasp in my post is that I am of course talking about getting the virus when un-vaccinated. 

I thought the same thing as Coma16, it definitely wasn't clear. Talked to a guy yesterday who was vaccinated and COVID kicked his ass and he's finally on the mend now. I was in close proximity to him too before he displayed symptoms, and I'm unvaccinated. I supposed I lucked out, because I'm fine.

[SoulMonster]

21 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I thought the same thing as Coma16, it definitely wasn't clear. Talked to a guy yesterday who was vaccinated and COVID kicked his ass and he's finally on the mend now. I was in close proximity to him too before he displayed symptoms, and I'm unvaccinated. I supposed I lucked out, because I'm fine.

If he got really sick when vaccinated then imagine how sick he would probably have gotten if he hadn't been vaccinated. The vaccine might have saved his life. I was about to write that he is lucky, but of course living as a result of taking a vaccine has nothing to do with luck. 

You, on the other hand, might consider yourself lucky if you didn't catch the virus (and it is too early to say that you didn't). That luck will run out at some point. You will get it sooner or later. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

I think I'm going to take my daughter to Walmart. I have no idea what my doctor is doing with the shots he has? It shouldn't take this long to call me and get my child an appointment. Sometimes I wonder what the hell these private doctors are thinking?

Also saw that Pfizer has a pill that can treat covid, but needs approval. Why does it take so long to approve needed medicines when covid is still infecting and killing people in the US and around the world?  

Anyway, with the holidays coming up and more and more people traveling now because they need to, okay whatever, for a generation who is always on their damn phones, why do you need to be with other people?lol

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If he got really sick when vaccinated then imagine how sick he would probably have gotten if he hadn't been vaccinated. The vaccine might have saved his life. I was about to write that he is lucky, but of course living as a result of taking a vaccine has nothing to do with luck. 

You, on the other hand, might consider yourself lucky if you didn't catch the virus (and it is too early to say that you didn't). That luck will run out at some point. You will get it sooner or later. 

True since vaccinated people can still get covid, but hopefully won't get that sick. I would rather get the vaccination and the booster to stay well and keep my family safe from getting covid.

A man in Dallas already died from the flu.  We got our flu shots in September, but you never know with the flu? But it's better to get the shot than not.

So many diseases are gone now due to vaccinations, so I'm all for them. I don't like being sick and I don't want my child getting sick if getting a vaccine can help.

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

You will get it sooner or later. 

Probably. I'd prefer to have natural immunity, should that happen, and assuming I survive it. 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Sweersa said:

Probably. I'd prefer to have natural immunity, should that happen, and assuming I survive it. 

Your body only develops immunity towards Covid-19 as a result of having had Covid-19. You are not born with an immune system primed against this disease. You develop immunity as soon as your immune system is exposed to the virus. So you can't have immunity without first having the disease.

With one exception: There is one amazing health hack that can be used to trick your immune system into developing immunity against Covid-19 without having to actually get the disease! You can inject your body with inert pieces if the virus, resulting in your immune system developing weapons against the disease without actually getting sick from the disease in the process! It's called a vaccine. Fantastic stuff. 

[Sweersa]

15 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Your body only develops immunity towards Covid-19 as a result of having had Covid-19. You are not born with an immune system primed against this disease. You develop immunity as soon as your immune system is exposed to the virus. So you can't have immunity without first having the disease.

With one exception: There is one amazing health hack that can be used to trick your immune system into developing immunity against Covid-19 without having to actually get the disease! You can inject your body with inert pieces if the virus, resulting in your immune system developing weapons against the disease without actually getting sick from the disease in the process! It's called a vaccine. Fantastic stuff. 

No need to be a smartass. I know and understand all of the above.

[SoulMonster]

43 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

No need to be a smartass. I know and understand all of the above.

So what did you mean by "natural immunity"? I am not an immunologist, but what I can remember from the immunology courses I have taken, it seems like someone who doesn't understand the difference between innate and adaptive immunity.

[Sweersa]

55 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So what did you mean by "natural immunity"? I am not an immunologist, but what I can remember from the immunology courses I have taken, it seems like someone who doesn't understand the difference between innate and adaptive immunity.

"Natural immunity is acquired from exposure to the disease organism through infection with the actual disease."

[SoulMonster]

30 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

"Natural immunity is acquired from exposure to the disease organism through infection with the actual disease."

How will natural immunity help you against Covid-19 if you only acquire it after having been infected with Covid-19?

[Sweersa]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

How will natural immunity help you against Covid-19 if you only acquire it after having been infected with Covid-19?

It will help with subsequent infections.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

It will help with subsequent infections.

That's true 

[Rovim]

10 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

It will help with subsequent infections.

stick to your guns

[ZoSoRose]

It always makes me happy to see Soul verbally slap people in this thread with facts and logic

[Sisyphus]

On 11/16/2021 at 12:35 PM, SoulMonster said:

Opening the floodgates is really only sensible when a sufficient amount of people have been vaccinated. We have done it here in Norway, though, and it seems to work. If it is done in countries with low vaccination coverage, we sacrifice people and risk having our healthcare systems collapse.

The annoying thing is that to protect the vulnerable groups, everybody else have to do stuff: like getting vaccinated and wearing face masks.

Yes, we should probably increase hospital and ICU capacities. or at least have modular systems that allow us to rapidly increase capacities in times of need. The bottle neck is likely on trained professionals, we can't really educate an excess of nurses and doctors to help us with the rare occasions of pandemics. 

There is no reason to assume the vaccines aren't safe for children, too. So in some countries, with low vaccination coverage, it might be necessary to start vaccination children too. If all the adults had gotten vaccinated, though, that might not be necessary.

I don't see any intimidation or media sewage in my country, fortunately.

Norway

At peak and rising 

230 infections per 100K people reported last 7 days

Updated 8:05 PM S

Average number of new infections reported each day in Norway rises by more than 1,000 over the last 3 weeks, 42% of its previous peak

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/norway/ 

Didn't Norway recently register the highest number of daily cases since the epidemic BEGAN? So let me get this straight. The infection rate is higher today than it was when the vaccination rate was 0%? Seems to work indeed. Better get in line for that booster shot.  Didn't your prime minister announce that covid restrictions will be reimposed just a few days ago?

Look, do whatever you want. I wish you and your children all the best. But I find your unconditional trust and support of privately owned pharmaceutical companies baffling. Disturbing even. 

These companies, known for paying billions of dollars in damages in the past, are conducting studies that "prove" their product is safe and effective, basically giving themselves a pat on the back, while at the same time they explicitly renounce all of the responsibility and are immune to liability if the product turns out harmful? Basically the narrative boils down to this: "I'm vaccinated but if you don't get one too, mine won't work."

In another post you basically claim that every day laws are just as freedom limiting as social distancing, lockdowns, curfews, masks, restricted access to restaurants, movie theaters, stores, security guards harassing me for certificates, being forced into a position where I have to disclose my medical status if I want go buy a fucking T-shirt, little children forced to shove test sticks up their noses with mandatory self-testing, kids being forced to wear masks in school...  Have you got no soul?

That shit ain't right. Especially in regards to kids. Many of them are scared to death, they don't understand the reality of the situation. This is a crime against humanity and you're comparing that to not being able to "walk everywhere" and "drive everywhere"? I have nothing to say to that.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Sisyphus

[Sisyphus]

On 11/16/2021 at 9:06 PM, SoulMonster said:

If he got really sick when vaccinated then imagine how sick he would probably have gotten if he hadn't been vaccinated. The vaccine might have saved his life. I was about to write that he is lucky, but of course living as a result of taking a vaccine has nothing to do with luck. 

You, on the other hand, might consider yourself lucky if you didn't catch the virus (and it is too early to say that you didn't). That luck will run out at some point. You will get it sooner or later. 

I died laughing. "Imagine how sick he would probably have gotten..." Isn't that convenient? A simple win-win for the global experiment.

Or maybe he would have gotten away with a simple cold? Considering the number of people that do, the assessment is just as fair. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Sisyphus

[SoulMonster]

19 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

I died laughing. "Imagine how sick he would probably have gotten..." Isn't that convenient? A simple win-win for the global experiment.

Or maybe he would have gotten away with a simple cold? Considering the number of people that do, the assessment is just as fair. 

No, if he got really sich when vaccinated, he wouldn't have gotten less sick if he was unvaccinated. Vaccination reduces the symptoms, generally speaking.