Covid-19 Thread

[SoulMonster]

48 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Norway

At peak and rising 

230 infections per 100K people reported last 7 days

Updated 8:05 PM S

Average number of new infections reported each day in Norway rises by more than 1,000 over the last 3 weeks, 42% of its previous peak

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/norway/ 

Didn't Norway recently register the highest number of daily cases since the epidemic BEGAN? So let me get this straight. The infection rate is higher today than it was when the vaccination rate was 0%? Seems to work indeed. Better get in line for that booster shot.  Didn't your prime minister announce that covid restrictions will be reimposed just a few days ago?

Look, do whatever you want. I wish you and your children all the best. But I find your unconditional trust and support of privately owned pharmaceutical companies baffling. Disturbing even. 

These companies, known for paying billions of dollars in damages in the past, are conducting studies that "prove" their product is safe and effective, basically giving themselves a pat on the back, while at the same time they explicitly renounce all of the responsibility and are immune to liability if the product turns out harmful? Basically the narrative boils down to this: "I'm vaccinated but if you don't get one too, mine won't work."

In another post you basically claim that every day laws are just as freedom limiting as social distancing, lockdowns, curfews, masks, restricted access to restaurants, movie theaters, stores, security guards harassing me for certificates, being forced into a position where I have to disclose my medical status if I want go buy a fucking T-shirt, little children forced to shove test sticks up their noses with mandatory self-testing, kids being forced to wear masks in school...  Have you got no soul?

That shit ain't right. Especially in regards to kids. Many of them are scared to death, they don't understand the reality of the situation. This is a crime against humanity and you're comparing that to not being able to "walk everywhere" and "drive everywhere"? I have nothing to say to that.

Lots to unpack here. I don't have time for it all, will just comment on the Norway bit now. Yes, we have higher number of cases now here in Norway because we have lifted restrictions. That's expected. But it is okay since mortality is low because we are for the most part vaccinated. 

I don't have unconditional trust in the pharmaceutical companies, I have unconditional trust in the science behind the vaccines and the clinical trial data. 

If thinking that it is entirely warranted that some countries have to resort to vaccine passports and mandatory testing when they haven't been able to control an ongoing pandemic (often largely because their population is too ignorant to get vaccinated), means I have no soul, then I guess I have no soul.

Kids in your country are scared to death because of testing? A slight exaggeration, I assume. How about someone explaining to them why it is necessary to test for Covid-19 then? Or are you against testing?  And I wasn't arguing that restrictions aren't limiting our freedom - of course they are, they are per definition limiting our freedom - I am just finding it hilarious when people argue as if it is unheard of for governments to curb our freedom in various ways, and don't grasp that during a pandemic we must accept additional, temporary restrictions to help us get through. Most people understand this, and that the alternative, to let the pandemic reign unchecked, is worse than having to show vaccine passports and the occasional test. Most people. 

And seems like I did comment on everything. Perfect. 

[RussTCB]

OK, I have some questions. 

These are honest questions, so nobody lose their shit please:

What's the argument for the line of thinking that the virus is either fake and/or not as big of a deal as it's being made out to be? 

Is the idea that this is all a charade to give more money to big pharma? 

Yes, I could Google this but I'd rather not. I'm reasonably sure I'd just come across a ton of slanted articles. So I'd rather just ask here and see what real people have to say. 

[downzy]

20 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Is the idea that this is all a charade to give more money to big pharma? 

Yeah, I think that's the crux of it.

They accuse the media, politicians, and entire medical community and industry of being in bed with each other.  The "fear" generated by the pandemic keeps people glued to the news; the actions necessary to combat the pandemic empower politicians, and the "vaccines" line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry.  

It's a convenient "theory," one that doesn't have some loose elements of fact (news media generally does make more money when people are engaged, politicians have increased their own authority, certain pharma companies have made a fortune).

But it's utter lunacy when one considers what it would take to maintain such a lie amongst the broad collection of people and industries.  It assumes that no one in the "mainstream media" cares about the truth; they're all getting their marching orders from their bosses who i assume are being told what to do by politicians.  It assumes all the medical researchers, all medical review boards in every country, and every pharmaceutical employees are in on the con.  It assumes that every elected official and bureaucrat who manage the pandemic is ignoring the "real" information about the virus for the sake of some grand economical/societal "reset."  

It's nonsense driven people who derive value in knowing "what's really going on."  Only they know the real truth, everyone else is in on the lie.  

[Sisyphus]

59 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Lots to unpack here. I don't have time for it all, will just comment on the Norway bit now. Yes, we have higher number of cases now here in Norway because we have lifted restrictions. That's expected. But it is okay since mortality is low because we are for the most part vaccinated. 

I don't have unconditional trust in the pharmaceutical companies, I have unconditional trust in the science behind the vaccines and the clinical trial data. 

If thinking that it is entirely warranted that some countries have to resort to vaccine passports and mandatory testing when they haven't been able to control an ongoing pandemic (often largely because their population is too ignorant to get vaccinated), means I have no soul, then I guess I have no soul.

Kids in your country are scared to death because of testing? A slight exaggeration, I assume. How about someone explaining to them why it is necessary to test for Covid-19 then? Or are you against testing?  And I wasn't arguing that restrictions aren't limiting our freedom - of course they are, they are per definition limiting our freedom - I am just finding it hilarious when people argue as if it is unheard of for governments to curb our freedom in various ways, and don't grasp that during a pandemic we must accept additional, temporary restrictions to help us get through. Most people understand this, and that the alternative, to let the pandemic reign unchecked, is worse than having to show vaccine passports and the occasional test. Most people. 

And seems like I did comment on everything. Perfect. 

Backtracking, minimizing, softening the stance ... You're a waste of my time. Keep on cementing the "new normality". 

[Sisyphus]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

No, if he got really sich when vaccinated, he wouldn't have gotten less sick if he was unvaccinated. Vaccination reduces the symptoms, generally speaking. 

Or it can cause the immune system to go apeshit. But you don't read on Pfizer's official webpage, the holy grail of reliable and credible information. 

[downzy]

47 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Backtracking, minimizing, softening the stance ... You're a waste of my time. Keep on cementing the "new normality". 

If he's a waste of your time (though I would argue the opposite to be the case), then kindly stop talking to him.  

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Or it can cause the immune system to go apeshit. But you don't read on Pfizer's official webpage, the holy grail of reliable and credible information. 

If it did cause immune systems to "go apeshit" that would be shown in the clinical trials. And you don't have to read about the results of the clinical trials on Pfizer's webpage, you can read about it in peer-reviewed publications. Secondly, if it did cause immune systems to "go apeshit", this would be evident from the billions of shots administered globally now, through the various post-launch reporting and monitoring systems. Alas, there is no evidence in either for apeshiting. 

The claim that the vaccine causes the immune system to go nuts, contrary to all the available evidence we have now for one of the most administered vaccines in history of mankind, is really scraping the conspiracy barrel for something that will stick. 

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Backtracking, minimizing, softening the stance ... You're a waste of my time. Keep on cementing the "new normality". 

Suggesting that the restrictions imposed upon us is the "new normal" implies a belief that they will not be lifted and that the government (or do you prefer "the elite"?) are using the pandemic as a convenient excuse to impose restrictions for unknown but undoubtedly sinister reasons. This is pretty wacky and it also implies a deep distrust of the governments and those who rule. This distrust is also correlated with skepticism to the vaccines (there is a strong correlation between trust in governments and vaccine uptake).

I can't speak for conditions in your country, but here in Norway most people accept that restrictions had to be imposed to protect the vulnerable among us when the pandemic hit, and we expect the restrictions to be lifted as soon as it is safe to do so.  We trust that the sitting government (we just had a change here), will do this because that's the mandate we have given them. And more cynically: we can trust they will do this because they have nothing to gain from the economic calamity and societal disruptions that comes from continued restrictions, especially when not needed. So when restrictions were lifted here this summer, this was exactly as expected. There was no "new normal". What we experienced was just temporary. This doesn't mean that restrictions may not have to be imposed again, which could happen if the virus mutates or the vaccine effect tapers off, but hopefully that won't happen.

But I suppose there is a new normal in the sense that hopefully we will be quicker to stay home from work/school if we have symptoms of respiratory disease, that shaking hands will be less common, that some people will wear masks more frequently (like they do all the time in some Asian countries), that people are more knowledgeable about infectious diseases and how vaccines and therapies are developed and receive market authorization, and that those who govern us have increased their understanding on how to handle epidemics and pandemics and are more aware of the various actions they can take to slow down spread of diseases. 

[LAGuns87]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

If it did cause immune systems to "go apeshit" that would be shown in the clinical trials. And you don't have to read about the results of the clinical trials on Pfizer's webpage, you can read about it in peer-reviewed publications. Secondly, if it did cause immune systems to "go apeshit", this would be evident from the billions of shots administered globally now, through the various post-launch reporting and monitoring systems. Alas, there is no evidence in either for apeshiting. 

The claim that the vaccine causes the immune system to go nuts, contrary to all the available evidence we have now for one of the most administered vaccines in history of mankind, is really scraping the conspiracy barrel for something that will stick. 

Not enough time has passed. In the animal experiments most of the animals died within 2 years.

My friend's father just took a test at his doctor. Immune cell counts had never been lower. This could be...dangerous.

[SoulMonster]

34 minutes ago, LAGuns87 said:

Not enough time has passed. In the animal experiments most of the animals died within 2 years.

My friend's father just took a test at his doctor. Immune cell counts had never been lower. This could be...dangerous.

Not enough time has passed for what? Enough time has certainly passed for us to know that the vaccines don't cause our immune systems to go "apeshit". If that was the case, it would be immediately apparent. Additionally, a new vaccine's effect on our immune system is thoroughly tested in clinical trials. In fact, since vaccine's mode of actions is through our immune system, that is one of the most important things to look at.

Am I right in thinking you believe we don't know much about these vaccines' long-term effects? I suppose that's why you brought up the thing about animals from animals studies having died by now. I am not sure that is entirely correct, thought, because I know non-human primates were used in the animals studies, and unless they were killed off as part of the research, I see no reason why they can't be alive still. 

But you are also missing a point of using animals with short life span in clinical research. One purpose of animal studies is to test a new drug's long-term effects, that is, how the drug possible cause effects in an animal as it ages. For such studies, animals like mice are brilliant because you can actually study long-term effects on short time-span (because they age so quickly), and the results can be transferable to humans with longer life-span. Hence you can actually get valuable information on how a drug will likely affect humans as we age, from studying how it affects mice as they age.

Some effects are not correlated to aging, but simply time, and then it is harder to study this in a 2-month clinical trial. But fortunately, for many of these effects we have work-arounds. Like cancer, even if cancer develops over a long time period, we can still measure how oncogenic a drug is by tests that look for mutagenicity, like Ames test and similar.

In summary, we know a lot more about the long-term effects of the Covid-19 vaccines than most people are aware of, especially many anti-vaxxers who seem to think we know absolutely nothing and that taking the vaccines are extremely risky (despite the fact that we know even less of the long-term effects of having been infected with Covid-19!).

Lastly, regarding your father's friends' immune system: Have you forgotten that you are arguing that not enough time has passed for us to say whether the vaccines cause our immune system to go "apeshit"? How can the immediate effects on this guy's immune system support your argument that the vaccines may have an unknown long-term effect? Secondly, when an immune system "goes apeshit", it doesn't get weakened, as for the man in your anecdote, it become super-active and starts reacting to stuff it shouldn't react to. What you are describing is the opposite, so it doesn't work as an argument in favor of the drugs causing apeshit immune system, especially not in the long-term. Lastly, personal anecdotes like that is worthless as long unless you can convincingly argue causality between the vaccination and the weakening effect on the immune system. There are so many known conditions that can weaken our immune systems, and none of these are the Covid-19 vaccines. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by SoulMonster

[RussTCB]

19 hours ago, downzy said:

Yeah, I think that's the crux of it.

They accuse the media, politicians, and entire medical community and industry of being in bed with each other.  The "fear" generated by the pandemic keeps people glued to the news; the actions necessary to combat the pandemic empower politicians, and the "vaccines" line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry.  

It's a convenient "theory," one that doesn't have some loose elements of fact (news media generally does make more money when people are engaged, politicians have increased their own authority, certain pharma companies have made a fortune).

But it's utter lunacy when one considers what it would take to maintain such a lie amongst the broad collection of people and industries.  It assumes that no one in the "mainstream media" cares about the truth; they're all getting their marching orders from their bosses who i assume are being told what to do by politicians.  It assumes all the medical researchers, all medical review boards in every country, and every pharmaceutical employees are in on the con.  It assumes that every elected official and bureaucrat who manage the pandemic is ignoring the "real" information about the virus for the sake of some grand economical/societal "reset."  

It's nonsense driven people who derive value in knowing "what's really going on."  Only they know the real truth, everyone else is in on the lie.  

OK.....I kinda figured as much but was wondering. 

I often wrestle with the mass media myself, so I can see the overall concern. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Okay heard Dr. Fauci and the doctor on Good Morning American 3 that  everyone that has gotten the two covid shots need to get the booster since people who are fully vaccinated can and are still getting covid.  Every day is something else.

Luckily, my parents got their booster and I have to get mine and hopefully my daughter will gt vaccinated today in Walmart.

And on top of this flu season is upon us.

Stay well everyone.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

20 hours ago, RussTCB said:

OK, I have some questions. 

These are honest questions, so nobody lose their shit please:

What's the argument for the line of thinking that the virus is either fake and/or not as big of a deal as it's being made out to be? 

Is the idea that this is all a charade to give more money to big pharma? 

Yes, I could Google this but I'd rather not. I'm reasonably sure I'd just come across a ton of slanted articles. So I'd rather just ask here and see what real people have to say. 

After all the people that has died, I highly doubt the virus is fake. Anyone who believes this is in denial. I wish it was fake.

Anyway, I've known people who have had it and got well.  But seeing all those sick people on tv is too damn scary to believe it's fake.

There's so many things in the world we don't even know about that can kill us, so I doubt this will be the end of covid or any other pandemic in the future. 

I just wish everything was easier to understand and we got it right from the start.  Just too many different opinions which was more confusing to most of us.

 

[downzy]

A new study published in the British Medical Journal reveals a 53 percent reduction in infections when people wore masks:

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

[Popcorn crew]

My daughter is vaccinated twice and last time it was a 2 weeks ago. Yet she was infected with Covid and she was in high temperature for 4 days. Luckily she is fine by now. 

[Popcorn crew]

Update, now I got Covid atleast my home test is positive. I am not vaccinated. For now I had 38.8 for two days. On both days I run home tests and was negative. Today I got positice result. My simptoms are headacke, my eyes are blury and light cought. I will have my PCR test on monday. 

[Gavin82]

Austria to plunge EVERYONE into full lockdown from Monday as Covid cases soar & ‘bodies stored in hospital corridors’ (thesun.ie)

 

Austria goes in to FULL LD from coming Monday

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Popcorn crew said:

Update, now I got Covid atleast my home test is positive. I am not vaccinated. For now I had 38.8 for two days. On both days I run home tests and was negative. Today I got positice result. My simptoms are headacke, my eyes are blury and light cought. I will have my PCR test on monday. 

Take care and hope it doesn't get any worse

[RussTCB]

Found out my wife and I are eligible for boosters in Michigan. Gonna go do that early next week. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

My daughter got her first covid vaccine yesterday in Walmart. The pharmacist was awesome and she didn't feel a thing. Three more weeks and she gets her second shot.

I'm feeling better already.

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Found out my wife and I are eligible for boosters in Michigan. Gonna go do that early next week. 

Awesome! Yeah, good thing since Dr. Fauci says we all should get a booster now.

I'm pretty sure we'll be having to get a covid booster every year like the flu shot. If it keeps us healthy and safe, I'll do it.

6 hours ago, Gavin82 said:

Austria to plunge EVERYONE into full lockdown from Monday as Covid cases soar & ‘bodies stored in hospital corridors’ (thesun.ie)

 

Austria goes in to FULL LD from coming Monday

Damn I so hate hearing about covid cases going up again. Some states in America are bad too. It seems to get better and then go up again. We need to get more people vaccinated.

And I thought the US was sending out vaccines to the other countries? How is that going?

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Take care and hope it doesn't get any worse

Yeah, take care and hope you feel better soon. If not, get to a hospital.  Maybe after this consider the vaccine.

15 hours ago, Popcorn crew said:

My daughter is vaccinated twice and last time it was a 2 weeks ago. Yet she was infected with Covid and she was in high temperature for 4 days. Luckily she is fine by now. 

Yeah, that stinks. But unfortunately even with the vaccine you can still get the virus, but like your daughter it won't be very bad. Glad she's going to be okay.  I know how we parents worry about our kids.

[ZoSoRose]

Well, I’m eating crow. Michigan is boned, again

[RussTCB]

59 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Well, I’m eating crow. Michigan is boned, again

One of my dear friends is having her nursing unit converted into a Covid unit again. I feel awful for her

[ZoSoRose]

People are idiots, man

[Gracii Guns]

I'm interested to find out what the long-term cultural effects of Covid will be. 

I liken it to when rationing and other home front efforts were made in Britain, for the sake of a greater good. Since then the British have valued food in a different way to other nations. Culturally, we don't like food waste, don't think bigger portion sizes are necessarily better. 

I hope that Covid will make us all kinder, hand shaking has been binned and that flexible working in regards to time and location will remain.