Use Your Illusion--filler myth

[bumbleslash69]

At the time, they were very much emptying the vault and leaving it all out there. Nowadays I think there are much better ways to release this amount of material. You could have probably whittled it down to 11-12 songs on each album. Would make things a bit more coherent. Then have KOHD and LALD as "double A-side" singles and not on the actual albums. Have some of the weaker songs as B-sides too. You could even go extreme and have November Rain, Don't Cry, and Estranged as a separate EP. Then bring all the material together on some super deluxe streaming edition of the album. Basically what we have now but released in a bit more accessible way. And you'd get two absolute rippers at an hour a piece.

 

But, being as they were a product of their time and meant to be excessive I don't think there is a ton of filler. If I had to pick, I'd say My World, So Fine, Back Off Bitch, Don't Cry with different verses, Shotgun Blues, Bad Apples, and Get in the Ring are non-essential tracks.

Again, as others have pointed out. A lot of these songs aren't really bad per-se (except My World. That's bad.) They're just b-side level compared to songs like Civil War and Locomotive which are S tier. Creates a lot of huge jumps in quality. That's more these two albums' problems than filler. You go from this band at its absolute peak to My World in a matter of minutes. 

[Lies They Tell]

The UYI albums have less filler songs than most rock albums. That's for sure!

[Ugly_Kid_Jose]

6 hours ago, darkside259 said:

so fine, my world and bad apples in my opinion 

+1

[Mr Mini Mite]

4 hours ago, mystery said:

 

People also kind of forget the mindset of a lot of 90's albums seemed to be including as many songs as possible to fill CD space. It might not all be the best material but including 14-17 songs made it a value for people buying albums at a time where album sales were still important to the music industry. There's a lot of albums from that era that had 60-75 minute runtimes where previously it'd be 9-12 songs with a 40-45 minute runtime. 

Exactly, that's the reason. Get a Grip, Vodoo Lounge, Made in the Shade, etc. Lots of album which could've been better with less songs, but that was the common practice in most rock bands in the late 80s and 90s.

To me, there are a couple of fillers on UYIs: Shotgun, Get in the Ring, You ain't and So Fine...

And of course, Axl's mushroom trip

[Crazyman]

The fact that there isn't a true consensus on what is filler on these albums, aside from My World, is telling in its own right. 

[Sonic Reducer]

One man's garbage is another one's treasure. Some people think the albums have a lot of filler. For example the AllMusic review for UYI 1 says that "The Garden" is filler, but to me it's a very solid tune that I rarely skip. Some people don't like "You Ain't the First" but I love all the Izzy tunes and I've seen reviews claiming that it's one of the best GnR songs ever recorded (!). And of course no one mentions that "Breakdown" and "Locomotive" are the best songs on UYI 2!
 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Sonic Reducer

[ryanf23]

I don’t think anyone will agree with me lol, but My World isn’t nearly as bad as everyone makes it out (my opinion of course). I’d much rather hear that song with Axl’s killer vocals than Absurd or Hardskool 

[Billy Cundy]

11 hours ago, RichardNixon said:

This weekend I listened to both Use Your Illusion 1 and 2, front to back, for the first time in several years. I've always heard comments like "endless filler," but I don't think so. Even lesser songs like "Shotgun Blues" and "You Ain't the first" are good. Then there are terrific songs like "The Garden" and "Garden of Eden," and "So Fine" which are just kind of written off. 

 

 

Breaking news: fan of band likes music by band

[janrichmond]

My World is 100% filler, as is Don't Cry (alt)  I love both albums but I often skip November Rain.

[Gordon Comstock]

20 minutes ago, ryanf23 said:

I don’t think anyone will agree with me lol, but My World isn’t nearly as bad as everyone makes it out (my opinion of course). I’d much rather hear that song with Axl’s killer vocals than Absurd or Hardskool 

 

Hardskool is a decent song that suffers from production issues, but yea Absurd is definitely worse than My World.

[Modano09]

I think people try to edit it down into one album and consider anything else that didn't make the cut "filler". I think everything (except "My World" or the same song with different lyrics) deserved to be recorded and released. At the very least I don't feel like they stuck a bunch of filler in there just to make it two albums - it was more than one album and maybe they threw some stuff in that would have been a B side somewhere to even them out.

[Sonic Reducer]

Don't Cry alt > Don't Cry. Fight me (or not, enjoy whatever you want).

[darkside259]

no but for real wtf was my world? how could that song ever happend!!

[Gordon Comstock]

4 minutes ago, Sonic Reducer said:

Don't Cry alt > Don't Cry. Fight me (or not, enjoy whatever you want).

 

Don't Cry alt is good, but the chorus fading in during the 'all love is real' line is annoying. Either way, they didn't need to release 2 versions of the song on the albums.

[MaskingApathy]

15 hours ago, RichardNixon said:

This weekend I listened to both Use Your Illusion 1 and 2, front to back, for the first time in several years. I've always heard comments like "endless filler," but I don't think so. Even lesser songs like "Shotgun Blues" and "You Ain't the first" are good. Then there are terrific songs like "The Garden" and "Garden of Eden," and "So Fine" which are just kind of written off. 

 

 

I've always felt the same way too, I think all the songs are good and have their place. There's nothing on there that I would describe as a "bad" song (except for My World maybe).

[Karice]

About Back Off Bitch, it sounds good musically, but the lyrics are trash. It could have been a very slamming song if the lyrics were completely different. 

[lazyyy]

In my opinion UYI's are Guns' equivalent to the The White Album. The songs are not quite as good as on AFD nor the UYI's are as tight, but the extent and diversity is more of a strength rather than weakness. AFD is straight to the point and in your face but the UYI's take the listener on a strange journey.

I think there are only two or three real filler tracks - meaning really dull and forgettable. Each of the rest of the songs defend their place on the albums and have something to say. There might be songs that are weird, too long or plain stupid but they still form some connection to me. There are songs that didn't do anything to me at the first listen but then they grew on me during the years or while on specific state of mind.

I'm more happy with two Illusions with total of 30 diverse songs than one Illusion with some 14 of the best tracks.

[Nice Boy]

We have to ask ourselves how an album comprised solely of the apparent filler tracks would have done, to estimate how average they are. 
 

 

[LunsJail]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:01 AM, darkside259 said:

so fine is soooo lame

I don’t love So Fine but I know people who do. It has an audience.

[mystery]

3 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

We have to ask ourselves how an album comprised solely of the apparent filler tracks would have done, to estimate how average they are. 
 

 

It would probably sell alright at first but quickly fall down the charts. The Use Your Illusion albums were lifted by songs that had appeal beyond hard rock fans like Don't Cry, Live and Let Die, and November Rain. I don't think they become the massive stadium act if an album solely comprised of Shotgun Blues, My World, and Don't Damn Me among others exist. 

[GnR Chris]

On 11/15/2022 at 7:46 AM, Gordon Comstock said:

Back Off Bitch is the only filler song on UYI I, but UYI II has the most filler of any GNR album.

I like Don't Cry (alt) but it's completely unnecessary, Get In The Ring is good instrumentally but the cheesy lyrics ruin it (like Back Off Bitch), Shotgun Blues and So Fine are mediocre, and then there's My World...

UYI 2 is superior to 1. I don’t care how much “filler” someone says the record might have. Consider them bonuses, not filler. ‘Cause even if you stripped them away, you still have a full-length record with just these: Civil War, Yesterdays, 14 Years, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive, Estranged, You Could Be Mine. All bangers. 

[GnR Chris]

23 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I do think one album with 16 songs was the way for the absolute beast of all beast follow up albums though... I just wouldn't have enjoyed the bickering over which songs get cut if I was making the call.

That’s the thing. You couldn’t fit 16 songs on one record with the length of many of the songs. Anyway, considering it took 17 years for GNR to release another studio record of original material, I’m glad the band unloaded the vault. Especially ‘cause everyone seems to have different ideas of which songs are filler. I still fuck with “Get in the Ring.” I don’t care what anyone says. 

[Eric Cantona]

I find a lot of the material in those albums very interesting in terms of musicality, lyricism and the head space of the band. Bad Apples is one of the bands most killer songs musically, and I love Axl’s delivery and lyrics on that track. Certain tunes like Get In The Ring and Shotgun Blues are by no means top tier tracks, but it’s interesting to listen to while imagining the total mental collapse going on inside Axl. 

Even My World has a charm to it, being a failed prelude to ChiDem of sorts and just being the track to close off the albums.

That being said, So Fine is the musical equivalent to oatmeal. It’s so terribly boring and inoffensive and leaves me utterly ambivalent after each listen. At least Silkworms is so comically terrible that you’re left with something resembling an impression. 

[mystery]

4 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

UYI 2 is superior to 1. I don’t care how much “filler” someone says the record might have. Consider them bonuses, not filler. ‘Cause even if you stripped them away, you still have a full-length record with just these: Civil War, Yesterdays, 14 Years, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive, Estranged, You Could Be Mine. All bangers. 

I prefer 2 over 1 as some of the rock tracks on UYI I (RNDTH, Perfect Crime, DDM, GOE) are alright but UYI II brings more of an emotional impact with songs like Breakdown, Estranged, 14 Years, and Civil War. I took away what I consider filler from both of them in one of my posts and they still have 12 songs each. 

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, GnR Chris said:

That’s the thing. You couldn’t fit 16 songs on one record with the length of many of the songs. Anyway, considering it took 17 years for GNR to release another studio record of original material, I’m glad the band unloaded the vault. Especially ‘cause everyone seems to have different ideas of which songs are filler. I still fuck with “Get in the Ring.” I don’t care what anyone says. 

Yeah the hindsight argument holds up pretty well, but pressed hard we'd come down to one CD if we put our minds to it too. I'm glad we have all that music though! 

It does tarnish their legacy a little, "they only have one good album" and that's because most people don't listen and deep dive with albums that are long and sprawling. It either hits instantly or they move on and label it shit. Some of it is waffle though, so there is that too.