Was Nu Guns a really toxic environment?

[allwaystired]

6 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

There's still parts of the world where it's like that. I think it's mostly the USA where the crowd is fucking lame.

Also there's a difference between crowds at huge shows like gnr and smaller concerts, where people still go crazy

The scene is weird though and bumble is made look like a school boy here. 

Yeah true on both counts. 

I think it would have taken an earthquake to get the audience to react at the show I saw this tour! 

Saw a small gig this week though and people were very into it. 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

48 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

The scene is weird though and bumble is made look like a school boy here. 

Couldn't have been feeling too good about things at the time IMHO. 5th or 6th show, apparently Axl (and most fans) wanted Bucket back right up to Hammerstein- and meanwhile Robin/Richard/Tommy all pissed that a 3rd guitarist is even there.

Personally, never got that great a vibe about things 2002-2008. The initial revamped line-up (i.e. 97-01) had a lot of studio/rehearsal time, and things like RIR 3 to bind them- and I always had the sense the 2009-2014 line-up was more of a traveling frat party just playing the string out with much of the pressure off them.

2002-2008 you had riots, record release pressures, band tensions around Bucket, Bumble, and even Robin (in or out at Chinese release?). Meanwhile, Axl really "in and out" on a lot of things too- and I believe Canter alluded to him being in a very bad spot emotionally 2007/08. So much so even Slash was worried for him (if I remember correctly). When you have that kind of trouble at the top of an organization- hard for anything else to go super well.

Edited August 25, 2023 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[PatrickS77]

37 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

There's still parts of the world where it's like that. I think it's mostly the USA where the crowd is fucking lame.

Also there's a difference between crowds at huge shows like gnr and smaller concerts, where people still go crazy

The scene is weird though and bumble is made look like a school boy here. 

Well. Context. Apparantly they were late and a bit in a hurry to get Axl to wherever he needed to be. It wasn't like they slammed him against the wall, leaving him with a bloody nose. He blocked the door and he was moved away. Not really an issue of toxic environment, just an issue of being in a hurry. I remember that show. I had a flight and a ticket. Then they moved the fucking show and I couldn't go. Went to London instead.

[Uncle Bob]

2 hours ago, allwaystired said:

Yeah true on both counts. 

I think it would have taken an earthquake to get the audience to react at the show I saw this tour! 

Saw a small gig this week though and people were very into it. 

My best experience ever at a show regarding the audience was in Japan. They were mostly like me, standing still just enjoying the music in silence. Some of us just prefer it this way lol

[Seb91]

19 hours ago, drlaban said:

The production was good enough to put out the album with 9-11 songs other than OMG. Nice to end the 90's/start the 00's with. No one knows what would've come after that. I guess the reunion would have come a few years sooner than 2016. No involvement of Dj Ashba and probably no Bumblefoot either.

One of the things that surprised me about the leaks was how good to go the 1999 tracks with Josh were. I mean, whilst no Buckethead guitar wizardry they do sound better to my ears production wise than the finished version - far less bloated (and the bass is properly there!). 

In terms of the reunion, I do wonder if that would have been an inevitability if things had gone better. I think a lot of it hinges on the chance meeting between Axl and Duff in 2010 and them reconnecting, eventually leading to Duff supporting Guns on tour and then filling in for Tommy. That chance reunion still could have happened (and if Tommy still would have had to leave then maybe Duff would have rejoined) but if Axl had been able to cement a lineup and put new material out at regular intervals from the late '90s/early '00s then I don't think he'd have needed Slash to come back. I mean Guns were still a big draw as far as 2010 after two major missed opportunities ('02 and '06) and that's with Axl turning up late etc. I imagine had more been done early on things would have been even better. Whilst maybe not on this scale, bands have managed to make a success of it with lineup changes (thinking of Deep Purple, Yes and King Crimson as examples with major lineup changes over the years). 

I think if things had gone better we may have gotten a Floyd at Live 8 deal with Slash coming back for a one off show like Waters did but not a prolonged reunion. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Seb91

[Cosmo]

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

https://streamable.com/9fm9po

This changes everything, IMO. Imagine getting to work on time, doing your part perfectly and then 2 hours and a half later, your boss arrives, his driver/security shoves out of his way and your boss doesn't even look at you, he just ignores it. This would be, without a doubt, a toxic work environment.

[Blackstar]

13 minutes ago, Cosmo said:

This changes everything, IMO. Imagine getting to work on time, doing your part perfectly and then 2 hours and a half later, your boss arrives, his driver/security shoves out of his way and your boss doesn't even look at you, he just ignores it. This would be, without a doubt, a toxic work environment.

It's Tom Mayhue (Axl's tech and stage manager).

I don't think we can pass such a conclusive judgement from just one snapshot. I'm not trying to justify it, but I guess that was (is?) Axl's usual "process" of getting on stage, especially when he was late: Axl rushing without even looking around and the crew making sure that no one got in their way.  I doubt he even noticed Bumblefoot in that instance.

[Lio]

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It's Tom Mayhue (Axl's tech and stage manager).

I don't think we can pass such a conclusive judgement from just one snapshot. I'm not trying to justify it, but I guess that was (is?) Axl's usual "process" of getting on stage, especially when he was late: Axl rushing without even looking around and the crew making sure that no one got in their way.  I doubt he even noticed Bumblefoot in that instance.

I agree. He's in the zone, hyper focused.

Other things I've read lead me to believe that NuGNR wasn't fun to be a part of at all, but I don't think this says anything at all.

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, Lio said:

I agree. He's in the zone, hyper focused.

Other things I've read lead me to believe that NuGNR wasn't fun to be a part of at all, but I don't think this says anything at all.

Another thing in this video that has not just been blown out of proportion but completely misinterpreted is the interaction between Axl and Izzy. Before I watched the video I'd been reading about how Axl "ignored" Izzy, even though it's clear that he talks to him.

[axlsalinger]

it looks to me that they walk down a wide hallway and then turn to go through a door in a much smaller space. Bumble happens to be either in the way or walking the other way, and Mayhue sees him at the last second and puts out a hand to "guide" him out of the way as they're walking through. Totally misrepresented earlier when it was stated that he was thrown "against the wall" lol. 

[whatashame]

I would say that every single GNR line up has been and will be toxic as fakk. The current one included.

The current one doesn't grant interviews, there is way too much money involved for anybody to speak up or for any line up changes. You take the current line up, remove all the dough, offer them as much as GNR earned 98-14 and wait for the shyt storm.

[Nintari]

Nu-Guns was like creating a Facebook account and one day, stumbling upon the profile of that gorgeous girl you dated back in your sophomore year in high school. You see the name, your eyes flick over to her full-body shot, but there is a disassociation going on. It says it's the same girl. But what happened? Just WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!?!?

[Slugworth]

9 hours ago, drlaban said:

Exactly. Release it in 00/01, let it flop, and take it from there. 
 

A “classic GNR” album released in 94/95 wouldn’t have lived up to the expectations either. 

Agreed.

 

A 94-95 album could've been the best tracks from Pawnshop Guitars, the Snakepit material, Believe In Me material, and This I Love as the big ballad.

 

While it probably would've been good, it's definitely not setting the world on fire. A world listening to Ace of Base, Soundgarden, Green Day, Live, The Offspring, Cranberries, Hole, and NIN isn't hankering for GNR.

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, Beta said the same: (88) 23. JANUARY 2001-NOVEMBER 2002: RICHARD REPLACES PAUL, TOURING STARTS (a-4-d.com)

But what was halting stuff was Buckethead disappearing. And his eccentricity, like only talking to a puppet and always wearing a mask even at rehearsals, likely wore out both band members and managers. Still, the main reason for lack of progress lies solely on Axl, and not on any other band member.

I remember Finck talking about this in an old interview. Finck found it very frustrating working with Bucket because he doesn't like playing the same thing twice. While I love Bucket, you can see how that would drive you crazy while trying to lay down tracks.

6 hours ago, allwaystired said:

Wow- crowds have changed SO much in such a short period of time. All those people jumping and singing. 

These days you're lucky if someone taps their foot at a gig! 

Mobile phones, obesity and high priced tickets really have dampened the atmosphere at gigs. 

Where was that footage from? 

This is the main reason I loathe concerts in today's world.

 

I hate theaters too.

 

People just don't know how to act normal anymore.

52 minutes ago, whatashame said:

You take the current line up, remove all the dough, offer them as much as GNR earned 98-14 and wait for the shyt storm.

They wouldn't even show up.

[allwaystired]

4 hours ago, Uncle Bob said:

My best experience ever at a show regarding the audience was in Japan. They were mostly like me, standing still just enjoying the music in silence. Some of us just prefer it this way lol

You'd have loved it in Glasgow. Was like a masuleam! 

[DoMw94]

8 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Wow! Way to blow things out of proportion.

That's what I was thinking. Absolutely nothing to that whatsoever

[Master Of Reality]

Does anyone remember Brain's worst drum instructional movie? I just thought about it seeing this topic. A lot of Gnr references/not so subtle shots 😂. You can still see it on youtube. From 1h 42 he mocks Axl, Beta, Merck, Bumble and Pitman (giant hot dog with a uniform cap like he used to wear is playing keys 🤣). 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Master Of Reality

[Slugworth]

5 minutes ago, Master Of Reality said:

Does anyone remember Brain's worst drum instructional movie? I just thought about it seeing this topic. A lot of Gnr references/not so subtle shots 😂. You can still see it on youtube. From 1h 42 he mocks Axl, Beta, Merck, Bumble and Pitman (giant wiener dog with a uniform cap like he used to wear is playing keys 🤣). 

Yeah it's great.

My favorite song on it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Master Of Reality]

11 minutes ago, Slugworth said:

Yeah it's great.

My favorite song on it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brain and Bucket made some great stuff together! I have to watch the full movie again...it's hilarious.

[Uncle Bob]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

You'd have loved it in Glasgow. Was like a masuleam! 

I would love any experience like that. I hate people 

[Graeme]

12 hours ago, allwaystired said:

You'd have loved it in Glasgow. Was like a masuleam! 

Glasgow 2023? I didn't go, but was it really that bad?

Glasgow 2006 was one of the rowdiest crowds they've ever had, so much so that Axl had to ask the crowd to step back to avoid a crush at the front. Still to this day the best audience I've ever been a part of.

[kiwiguns]

14 hours ago, whatashame said:

I would say that every single GNR line up has been and will be toxic as fakk. The current one included.

The current one doesn't grant interviews, there is way too much money involved for anybody to speak up or for any line up changes. You take the current line up, remove all the dough, offer them as much as GNR earned 98-14 and wait for the shyt storm.

The Perhaps video tells a different story. Again you are someone who believes this within there own mind without any evidence to back that up.

I have seen plenty of evidence including on stage, that the current environment is a healthy one. 

Besides, these people aren't children as  children don't have the maturity to speak up, These guys are adults and have the maturity to speak their mind and understand the situations they are in... They have chosen not to speak for there own reasons and they have every right to do so... 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by kiwiguns

[whatashame]

the current environment is healthy because the money's great. That's what I said.

 

if the paycheck is okay, nobody gives a hoot Axl can't sing and Slash is butchering the solos way more than Ashba did.

[allwaystired]

5 hours ago, Graeme said:

Glasgow 2023? I didn't go, but was it really that bad?

Glasgow 2006 was one of the rowdiest crowds they've ever had, so much so that Axl had to ask the crowd to step back to avoid a crush at the front. Still to this day the best audience I've ever been a part of.

Yeah- great gig, terrible crowd. No-one seemed to know anything other that the two or three very biggest songs.I wrote a little review of it on the Glasgow show thread if you're interested.

I was surprised myself as I've been to loads of gigs in Glasgow and it's always been great crowds. I think a lot of people said the same at shows all across Europe though in the various threads, so I think it's just perhaps the crowds GNR play to these days- very very casual fans who want to tick a box. 

Show was great though- band played amazingly. 

[lost un the jungle]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:49 AM, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

Personally, never got that great a vibe about things 2002-2008. The initial revamped line-up (i.e. 97-01) had a lot of studio/rehearsal time, and things like RIR 3 to bind them- and I always had the sense the 2009-2014 line-up was more of a traveling frat party just playing the string out with much of the pressure off them.

I agree, after CD release GNR was Axl+"Friends" on summer camp playing

[Gunner Gilby]

I don't know if it was toxic or not. But the Guns of 85-94 was a bunch of friends who got together naturally. Dizzy wasn't an original member but knew the band from their early club days. Gilby said Izzy was his first friend when he moved to LA. So it was kinda fitting he ended up replacing his friend. From the late 90s to 09 it was Axl hand picking musicians who were talented enough but had nothing really in common.