Tour Lithographs and show specific artwork

[Tonyp44]

3 hours ago, Ixtlan said:

What time did you get there?

730 but the VIP line took awhile to get in.

[B5Redeye]

From the looks of EBay looks like the “flippers” got most of them.

im flying back to go to the Sunday show in Atlantic City. Hopefully can get one there

[amaninjapan]

14 hours ago, B5Redeye said:

The artwork was great! Unfortunately I didn’t get a lithograph. They went instantly and from the looks of eBay this morning mostly to flippers.

I talked to one m’fr who had a poster tube. He had 13 of the 250. He said he goes to all the shows and this is how he pays for it.

it really would be nice if the venues would limit the purchase to 1 to give everyone a chance.

This is going to be a hot take but let me counter some of your points:

1) You say "mostly to flippers" - both sold and listed combined, I count 35 jersey lithos on Ebay - most of which remain unsold because of inflated prices which will go down once the sellers realize they're asking a bit too much. Nevertheless, it seems like at least 80% of them DIDN'T go to flippers. Yes, flippers are an issue but this isn't the same as ticketmaster where ALL tickets sell out literally instantly online. A vast, vast, VAST majority of lithos are being bought by fans who showed more dedication than most to GET THERE EARLY. Just because somebody had the dedication/ability/opportunity to get there and line up earlier than you doesn't mean they're flippers.

2) 13 lithos is excessive, for sure. I have no problem with people buying multiples but there is a line somewhere and 13 is definitely over it.

3) I also kinda have no problem with people who actually manage to be successful at flipping merch to go to shows. If he was flipping merch to, I don't know, literally do anything else then I could understand being annoyed. There's an infamous dude based in LA who gives zero fucks about bands and literally just pays people to stand in line and get merch for him to flip online. I don't know if he's using the profit he's making from that endeavor to pay off his mortgage or to fund a heroin addiction or sending it to starving orphans in Sudan or whatever, but nevertheless he's clearly not doing it out of appreciation for the band. If some dude can grind out enough of a profit from flipping merch to other fans so that he can afford to go see more GNR shows? Man, more power to him. If he's putting too much of a margin on his flips, fans will vote with their wallet and not buy from him. If they buy from him then one can surely argue that an equilibrium has been found where the flipper gets what he wants and the fan pays no more than what he's willing to pay. I know some people will shout "you shouldn't make a profit from fellow fans" but come on, you gotta be living in a dream world to truly believe that. That's straight up cognitive dissonance and/or self-righteous indignation. If you bought a couple of shirts at a show, one for yourself and intending to give one to a friend and woke up the following morning to find out the shirt was worth a few grand, nobody could be blamed for wanting to flip it online.

4) Limiting purchases to 1 per person might arguably be THE WORST IDEA EVER TO HAPPEN IN THE HISTORY OF CONCERT MERCHANDISE.

You wouldn't be able to rely on your father/brother/sister/mother/friend to stand in line and grab an additional one for you. So now there's going to be more people lining up. Which now means people are going to line up earlier. How on earth is that going to help those of you complaining that you couldn't get a litho even though you rocked up when doors opened? You guys are already about four to five hours too late, you really think 200 other people aren't going to show up before doors open? Other bands have limited sales to one per person and I'm certain fans of those bands can back me up when I say it hasn't eliminated flipping, nor has it improved the after market prices. In fact, flipping for some bands has become even more lucrative because now they can demand higher prices since they're harder to get. If items are profitable, flippers will always find a way to grab them.

At the end of the day, people will eventually have to accept that MOST LITHOS ARE BEING SOLD TO FANS. A small minority are going to flippers and you have to accept that that is always going to happen.

I have no problem with there being a limit to litho sales. But 1 is without a doubt too strict.

5) Honestly, flippers probably are more good than bad for collectors like us. And I'm going to assume you're a collector otherwise you probably wouldn't be here and you wouldn't have made a brand new account and make your first post be about complaining about flippers.

Here's a question - You say you didn't get a litho at the show - If a flipper on Ebay (or in here, wherever, it doesn't matter) says they'd sell you an extra they bought for cost price, would you buy it? I'm sure you would. Congratulations, a flipper just saved your ass. You got there late, the crowds were too big, the merch stand you went to didn't have the litho, you couldn't find the merch stand, your dog ate your concert ticket, your mom got sick, whatever excuse you have - you didn't get a litho and now somebody who was able to get a litho bailed you out.

Now let's say the flipper wants $60 for the litho. Consider that beer money, I assume you'd still buy it if you really liked the litho. Let's say the flipper wants $1000. Probably you don't pay it. But that doesn't really matter because what we've established is that you don't have a problem with flippers, you're just arguing about price. 'Flippers' give people who weren't able to get a litho at the concert (for whatever reason) a chance to own a litho. Doesn't matter if you got there late, doesn't matter if you couldn't go to the show, doesn't matter if you live on the other side of the planet. You didn't get a litho and they're offering you the opportunity to own one. For collectors, which I assume most of us are, this in the grand scheme of things is a blessing, right? Nobody can go to all the shows, nobody can bat a thousand lining up for merch, we all rely on the ability to buy something afterwards and whether it's lithos or some limited edition shoes or a rare car, there's usually a premium to pay for being given that opportunity at a later date. Complain about the price maybe, but not the market. I have my complete collection thanks not only to my own stubborn abilities to show up early and waste countless hours in line, but also to fellow dedicated friends who helped me by going to shows I didn't go to - but also to flippers on Ebay who gave me the chance to buy a litho for a show I didn't go to, a show I couldn't go to, a show that nobody I knew went to. If I have to pay more for that opportunity, so be it. Nobody is forcing me to pay those prices and many times I didn't. I waited until I found a more reasonable price/trade opportunity later.

Don't hate the players, hate the game. If the posters weren't limited edition and were sold online, literally everybody who wants one could buy one - but I don't hear anybody complaining about GNR making them limited edition. Just suck it up guys - getting limited edition things isn't easy, isn't meant to be easy and you sometimes have to pay to play.

 

11 hours ago, nycgunner said:

Agreed. I got to the venue at 2p, when parking opened, and someone a lot of people beat me (my buddy and I each snagged the last 2 from a venue employee selling through the closed gates). I saw multiple people carrying 4-6 of them. Just bullshit. It only fucks over fans. Doesn’t help the band. Not sure why it’s structured this way

It only fucks over fans? I'm just curious who you think is buying these lithos for inflated prices on Ebay? You don't think they're fans too?

If a diehard fan in Boise or Tokyo or Rio de Janeiro is willing to pay $500 for a litho because it's cheaper than spending $1000+ on flights and hotels and tickets and losing another few hundred dollars taking time off work to go on the trip, what makes him any less of a fan than someone showing up when doors open?

"Doesn't help the band" is nonsensical. Limited edition posters are about hype, not profit. If they work the fanbase into a lather, get them talking about the shows/merch, collecting merch, going to shows, then it's providing far more benefit to the band than just a few thousand dollars profit from selling posters.

 

2 hours ago, B5Redeye said:

From the looks of EBay looks like the “flippers” got most of them.

No, they didn't.

[A.R.S.D.]

Well I’m in Australia so my only chance at a Lithograph from any show that’s not here is a flipper so flip away please

[Spike Killer]

They made 250 available for purchase at $50 or $65?  250 seems way too low?  What about 600?  Were there any shows that didn't sell out on date specific lithographs?  At 250 prints I'd definitely price it at least $100+, maybe $150 for fun.

[amaninjapan]

Just to elaborate on debunking this myth that flippers are getting "most" of the lithos - I mentioned that I clearly had too much time on my hands at some point and actually did some statistical analysis back in April of this year regarding GNR litho sales on Ebay. It had been over a year since GNR's last event (at the Super Bowl) and the last NITL show (in Vegas) so I thought that enough time had passed to be able to take a retrospective approach to sales.

The statistics that I believe help enforce my statement that most lithos are being bought by fans, not flippers:

Up until April 2021, there had been 4646 GNR lithos sold on Ebay. Including an estimation of the number of lithos printed for the very small handful of NITL shows where we don't know the total number of lithos printed, there were 46995 total lithos printed from the Troubadour until the last show in Vegas in 2019. That's about 9.88% of all lithos showing up on Ebay. On average that's just under 26 lithos per show. Obviously that skews a little because overseas shows have drastically less lithos show up on Ebay compared to the US, but also a vast majority of NITL shows were in the US, so weighting allows the statistics to be saved a little from skewing in this regard.

Additional caveats - I obviously can't confirm which lithos were real or which were fake. I also can't confirm if a litho was sold multiple times and had multiple owners. This is also only for sales that showed up on Ebay US and Ebay UK - for whatever reason, any other regional Ebay sites keep their statistics separate. However, the volume of sales on satellite Ebay sites pales in comparison to US/UK so I doubt that adding those details would skew the statistics dramatically either. This also obviously doesn't include sales off Ebay (duh) so if there's some massive conspiracy of flippers who find it easier and more profitable to flip lithos using some secret, underground network of sales then this will clearly not include those. I think it's reasonably safe to say that anybody seriously 'flipping' is going to be using Ebay as their chief tool. And last but not least, these statistics don't show who is a hardcore flipper and who is just simply selling a litho they no longer want or would rather sell for profit. Someone could sell their only copy or they could sell their 20th copy, there's no way of telling.

Nevertheless, I think most lithos are NOT going to flippers and I'm comfortable with the percentage going into fan's hands directly. The average sale price for a litho from those 4646 sold was $155 by the way - which to me is not an unreasonable price. But that's just me.

[amaninjapan]

6 minutes ago, Spike Killer said:

They made 250 available for purchase at $50 or $65?  250 seems way too low?  What about 600?  Were there any shows that didn't sell out on date specific lithographs?  At 250 prints I'd definitely price it at least $100+, maybe $150 for fun.

You should feel sorry for some of the Europe concerts.

London 2017 Night 1 - 150 lithos and 70,000 people in attendance
Hameenlinna, Finland - 80 lithos and 55,000 people in attendance (albeit they got two designs, 80 copies each)
Prague, Czech Republic - 80 lithos and 50,000 people in attendance (two designs, 80 copies each)

[Mcs953]

Looking to trade for a Nola glow in the dark or Florida swamp, anyone have them and would you want to trade?

 

thanks

[guitarpatch]

They absolutely should limit lithos. This isn’t anything new for other artists/tours
 

They should also make them available on their online tour store for a limited time and just print them to order 

If anything, they should be a little peeved that people are flipping them to a point where fans are getting gouged on their merch and more for them that they aren’t seeing the profit 

[Stryker]

3 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

They absolutely should limit lithos. This isn’t anything new for other artists/tours
 

They should also make them available on their online tour store for a limited time and just print them to order 

If anything, they should be a little peeved that people are flipping them to a point where fans are getting gouged on their merch and more for them that they aren’t seeing the profit 

Having it as an “add-on” to ticket orders always made sense to me. Plenty of people would do that even if the design wasn’t finalized.

Its a win for the buyers because they get the litho safely delivered at retail without having to carry it around at the show, and it’s a win for the band because they would have a more accurate idea of demand. They could even limit initial orders to the week tickets go onsale, to drive early sales. Any leftovers could be sold at shows.

[RedHook]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:05 PM, facefirst said:

Here you go, folks. More to come on this tour from me. 

 

 

One of the best Lithos ever,

These sold out fast,

and even though I was at the show an hour before Mammoth WVH went on, I still wasn't able to get one, and had to settle for the T-shirt.

and now my collection of local show lithographs is incomplete.

I have

Foxboro July 19 2016

Foxboro July 20 2016

Boston Oct 22 2017

Any chance you sell some artist prints of this design at a later date?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by RedHook

[B5Redeye]

9 hours ago, amaninjapan said:

This is going to be a hot take but let me counter some of your points:

1) You say "mostly to flippers" - both sold and listed combined, I count 35 jersey lithos on Ebay - most of which remain unsold because of inflated prices which will go down once the sellers realize they're asking a bit too much. Nevertheless, it seems like at least 80% of them DIDN'T go to flippers. Yes, flippers are an issue but this isn't the same as ticketmaster where ALL tickets sell out literally instantly online. A vast, vast, VAST majority of lithos are being bought by fans who showed more dedication than most to GET THERE EARLY. Just because somebody had the dedication/ability/opportunity to get there and line up earlier than you doesn't mean they're flippers.

2) 13 lithos is excessive, for sure. I have no problem with people buying multiples but there is a line somewhere and 13 is definitely over it.

3) I also kinda have no problem with people who actually manage to be successful at flipping merch to go to shows. If he was flipping merch to, I don't know, literally do anything else then I could understand being annoyed. There's an infamous dude based in LA who gives zero fucks about bands and literally just pays people to stand in line and get merch for him to flip online. I don't know if he's using the profit he's making from that endeavor to pay off his mortgage or to fund a heroin addiction or sending it to starving orphans in Sudan or whatever, but nevertheless he's clearly not doing it out of appreciation for the band. If some dude can grind out enough of a profit from flipping merch to other fans so that he can afford to go see more GNR shows? Man, more power to him. If he's putting too much of a margin on his flips, fans will vote with their wallet and not buy from him. If they buy from him then one can surely argue that an equilibrium has been found where the flipper gets what he wants and the fan pays no more than what he's willing to pay. I know some people will shout "you shouldn't make a profit from fellow fans" but come on, you gotta be living in a dream world to truly believe that. That's straight up cognitive dissonance and/or self-righteous indignation. If you bought a couple of shirts at a show, one for yourself and intending to give one to a friend and woke up the following morning to find out the shirt was worth a few grand, nobody could be blamed for wanting to flip it online.

4) Limiting purchases to 1 per person might arguably be THE WORST IDEA EVER TO HAPPEN IN THE HISTORY OF CONCERT MERCHANDISE.

You wouldn't be able to rely on your father/brother/sister/mother/friend to stand in line and grab an additional one for you. So now there's going to be more people lining up. Which now means people are going to line up earlier. How on earth is that going to help those of you complaining that you couldn't get a litho even though you rocked up when doors opened? You guys are already about four to five hours too late, you really think 200 other people aren't going to show up before doors open? Other bands have limited sales to one per person and I'm certain fans of those bands can back me up when I say it hasn't eliminated flipping, nor has it improved the after market prices. In fact, flipping for some bands has become even more lucrative because now they can demand higher prices since they're harder to get. If items are profitable, flippers will always find a way to grab them.

At the end of the day, people will eventually have to accept that MOST LITHOS ARE BEING SOLD TO FANS. A small minority are going to flippers and you have to accept that that is always going to happen.

I have no problem with there being a limit to litho sales. But 1 is without a doubt too strict.

5) Honestly, flippers probably are more good than bad for collectors like us. And I'm going to assume you're a collector otherwise you probably wouldn't be here and you wouldn't have made a brand new account and make your first post be about complaining about flippers.

Here's a question - You say you didn't get a litho at the show - If a flipper on Ebay (or in here, wherever, it doesn't matter) says they'd sell you an extra they bought for cost price, would you buy it? I'm sure you would. Congratulations, a flipper just saved your ass. You got there late, the crowds were too big, the merch stand you went to didn't have the litho, you couldn't find the merch stand, your dog ate your concert ticket, your mom got sick, whatever excuse you have - you didn't get a litho and now somebody who was able to get a litho bailed you out.

Now let's say the flipper wants $60 for the litho. Consider that beer money, I assume you'd still buy it if you really liked the litho. Let's say the flipper wants $1000. Probably you don't pay it. But that doesn't really matter because what we've established is that you don't have a problem with flippers, you're just arguing about price. 'Flippers' give people who weren't able to get a litho at the concert (for whatever reason) a chance to own a litho. Doesn't matter if you got there late, doesn't matter if you couldn't go to the show, doesn't matter if you live on the other side of the planet. You didn't get a litho and they're offering you the opportunity to own one. For collectors, which I assume most of us are, this in the grand scheme of things is a blessing, right? Nobody can go to all the shows, nobody can bat a thousand lining up for merch, we all rely on the ability to buy something afterwards and whether it's lithos or some limited edition shoes or a rare car, there's usually a premium to pay for being given that opportunity at a later date. Complain about the price maybe, but not the market. I have my complete collection thanks not only to my own stubborn abilities to show up early and waste countless hours in line, but also to fellow dedicated friends who helped me by going to shows I didn't go to - but also to flippers on Ebay who gave me the chance to buy a litho for a show I didn't go to, a show I couldn't go to, a show that nobody I knew went to. If I have to pay more for that opportunity, so be it. Nobody is forcing me to pay those prices and many times I didn't. I waited until I found a more reasonable price/trade opportunity later.

Don't hate the players, hate the game. If the posters weren't limited edition and were sold online, literally everybody who wants one could buy one - but I don't hear anybody complaining about GNR making them limited edition. Just suck it up guys - getting limited edition things isn't easy, isn't meant to be easy and you sometimes have to pay to play.

 

It only fucks over fans? I'm just curious who you think is buying these lithos for inflated prices on Ebay? You don't think they're fans too?

If a diehard fan in Boise or Tokyo or Rio de Janeiro is willing to pay $500 for a litho because it's cheaper than spending $1000+ on flights and hotels and tickets and losing another few hundred dollars taking time off work to go on the trip, what makes him any less of a fan than someone showing up when doors open?

"Doesn't help the band" is nonsensical. Limited edition posters are about hype, not profit. If they work the fanbase into a lather, get them talking about the shows/merch, collecting merch, going to shows, then it's providing far more benefit to the band than just a few thousand dollars profit from selling posters.

 

No, they didn't.

"King Litho" did I step on your toes because you are a flipper? I seem to recall posts with pictures from you owning several of any given litho.

Let me address just a couple of things....

I counted 39 on Ebay this morning and that doesn't count the DB who bought 13. So yes not most but at 52 it represents 1/4 of all that were available.

You mean YOU think limiting it to 1 per person is the worst idea. Wonder why that is....

But ok...so maybe set the limit at 1% of total lithos rounded down. So in the case of Metlife it would have been 2.

I really like the idea of it being a ticket add on. I think that is a great way to limit them and provided you have a computer, iphone, etc gives everyone the same chance at obtaining on.

And no your assumption is wrong. I don't own any lithographs. I didn't even know lithographs were available (which sucks because I potentially missed out on other shows) until I found this forum....don't even recall why I started searching for a GNR forum other than being a fan.

For the record, I requested a membership months ago. Don't know why it took the admins that long to "approve" my membership.

[amaninjapan]

2 minutes ago, B5Redeye said:

"King Litho" did I step on your toes because you are a flipper? I seem to recall posts with pictures from you owning several of any given litho.

Let me address just a couple of things....

I counted 39 on Ebay this morning and that doesn't count the DB who bought 13. So yes not most but at 52 it represents 1/4 of all that were available.

You mean YOU think limiting it to 1 per person is the worst idea. Wonder why that is....

But ok...so maybe set the limit at 1% of total lithos rounded down. So in the case of Metlife it would have been 2.

I really like the idea of it being a ticket add on. I think that is a great way to limit them and provided you have a computer, iphone, etc gives everyone the same chance at obtaining on.

And no your assumption is wrong. I don't own any lithographs. I didn't even know lithographs were available (which sucks because I potentially missed out on other shows) until I found this forum....don't even recall why I started searching for a GNR forum other than being a fan.

For the record, I requested a membership months ago. Don't know why it took the admins that long to "approve" my membership.

The user subtitle is not something you can edit personally on this forum, therefore it's not a title I gave myself. For most people, it just changes (from Newbie/Junior/Senior etc) depending on how much you post. The moderators thought I deserved a unique title for... services rendered.

Feel free to check out my website: http://www.lithorati.com/

and the book I wrote on the lithos:

 

[facefirst]

54 minutes ago, RedHook said:

 

 

One of the best Lithos ever,

These sold out fast,

and even though I was at the show an hour before Mammoth WVH went on, I still wasn't able to get one, and had to settle for the T-shirt.

and now my collection of local show lithographs is incomplete.

I have

Foxboro July 19 2016

Foxboro July 20 2016

Boston Oct 22 2017

Any chance you sell some artist prints of this design at a later date?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the kind words.  I'm glad you like it.  I actually will have some APs available at some point.  I haven't received them yet so I'm hamstrung until then, unfortunately.

[B5Redeye]

53 minutes ago, amaninjapan said:

The user subtitle is not something you can edit personally on this forum, therefore it's not a title I gave myself. For most people, it just changes (from Newbie/Junior/Senior etc) depending on how much you post. The moderators thought I deserved a unique title for... services rendered.

Feel free to check out my website: http://www.lithorati.com/

and the book I wrote on the lithos:

 

I’ve looked at them before! Bad ass for sure!

for the record the DB that bought 13….

I asked him if he’d sell one and he said yes for $350. I told him that was fine but I wanted the poster tube he had. This was before the show started. He said no. He was standing right beside me at the end but never offered. I felt at $350 it was fine considering he had multiples I could most likely find one that was mint. And I had already purchased a hard poster tube and have “hard” luggage so I felt comfortable that it would make it back in mint.

after reading some of the stories about how some have shipped them on eBay I wouldn’t personally pay that much for one on eBay.

45 minutes ago, facefirst said:

Thanks for the kind words.  I'm glad you like it.  I actually will have some APs available at some point.  I haven't received them yet so I'm hamstrung until then, unfortunately.

Your work is awesome! 
 

I’d love to have an AP if you have an extra. How will they be offered for sale?

are you doing the ones for the shows in Atlantic City?

[facefirst]

Looks like I’ll be lucky to get one poster for myself. Sorry to anyone that thought I’d have APs. At this point I’ll be blessed to have a piece of my own art to hang on the wall. 

[Mcs953]

Just curious if you are doing the Colorado poster, hoping for a shining theme.

[B5Redeye]

22 minutes ago, facefirst said:

Looks like I’ll be lucky to get one poster for myself. Sorry to anyone that thought I’d have APs. At this point I’ll be blessed to have a piece of my own art to hang on the wall. 

No worries. It was just a wish and outside chance! Keep up the great work!

Are you doing the Atlantic City shows?

[Gavin82]

If there is ever anyone with a Stockholm 2017 print I'd love to hear from you only want 1 cos its was my birthday 29/6

[alfierose]

13 hours ago, B5Redeye said:

For the record, I requested a membership months ago. Don't know why it took the admins that long to "approve" my membership.

Sorry about that. We put a hold on all new accounts for a while, it wasn't personal to you.

[B5Redeye]

7 hours ago, alfierose said:

Sorry about that. We put a hold on all new accounts for a while, it wasn't personal to you.

Thanks for the reply. I didn’t know what was going on. I “contacted us” and Invision and got no reply.

Maybe if y’all do something like that again make a sticky announcing it.

[ZoSoRose]

I need the Robocop litho! Getting there late, can anyone pick one up for me?

[k12]

They really aren't limiting lithos to 1 per? That fuccked up, and any word on how fast the lithos go? I really don't want to get there 4 hours early to get one 

[facefirst]

14 hours ago, Mcs953 said:

Just curious if you are doing the Colorado poster, hoping for a shining theme.

I did do that one. 

14 hours ago, B5Redeye said:

No worries. It was just a wish and outside chance! Keep up the great work!

Are you doing the Atlantic City shows?

I was asked to but I’m probably going to pass and not do any more lithos at all. 

[Tat2brian77]

59 minutes ago, facefirst said:

I did do that one. 

I was asked to but I’m probably going to pass and not do any more lithos at all. 

Looking forward to seeing the ones you did end up doing , Fenway Boston is by far one of my favorites of the tour .