Covid-19 Thread

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Your pretence bores me. 

Leaving Norway aside for a second, if you support and endorse the global response to this epidemic than we are just completely different people with a very different outlook as to what is morally acceptable. The difference is though that you can't even entertain the idea not everything is as hunky dory when it comes to restrictions and vaccines.

As for the media and the extreme measurements I've listed, look what happenend in Spain, Italy, Belgium... with all due respect, Norway is not the end-all of this pandemic.

I don't think there is a "global response". Each country has made its own decision as to how to handle the pandemic. Most countries have decided to encourage people to get vaccinated and have imposed restrictions on travelling and movement, and advised people to social distance and wear face masks. I see no problem with this. If you are of the opinion that governments shouldn't have imposed such restrictions, and rather just have let the disease run its course uncontrolled, then I believe the death tolls would have been dramatically higher. By slowing down the spread until people have been vaccinated, we have saved millions globally. 

[downzy]

Check out the screen grabs and try your best not to shake your head in response.

 

[Gavin82]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58612530

Amir got the boot from a U.S airline good enough for him 

[Dazey]

2 hours ago, Gavin82 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58612530

Amir got the boot from a U.S airline good enough for him 

Wouldn’t be the first time he didn’t go get distance. In his defence it must be hard to wear a mask with no chin. 😂

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Honestly, everything seems to be made worse because of social media. People need to put their phones down and find a hobby or maybe help other people who need it.

there are over 500,000 homeless in California and I can't believe this? how can American let this go on? Just too sad for words. I don't know what has happened to this world in the past years. We are getting worse and worse and so many are suffering for it.

I don't know how anyone can fix anything.

and yet all those migrants still want to come to America. I can only imagine how bad it must be in their country to still want to come to America? It's not the land that it once was.

[PatrickS77]

On 9/15/2021 at 5:39 PM, downzy said:

According to the latest research the vaccines provide three times the level of infection protection than those who choose to remain unvaccinated.  So you do get some level of protection from infection, but you're not bulletproof.  So there's that.

Moreover, many people can't get vaccinated.  My wife and I make our best efforts to balance the risk and social needs for our daughter, who is too young to be vaccinated.  She still attends school where teachers are required to either be vaccinated or be tested weekly.  But we don't allow her to play with other kids without masks who belong to parents who are not vaccinated.  Just last week a four year old died of Covid.  She caught it from her mother who chose not to be vaccinated.

Finally, I just have little respect for those who believe they know more than all the medical researchers and experts who advocate the safety of the vaccines.  If someone wants to be an idiot, fine, have at it.  But I really don't have the time to spend with people I lost my respect for.  The ego and presumption of some to think they know more than the experts is something I want to limit my interactions with.  When you're potentially putting the health of myself and my family in jeopardy because of absolute nonsense, you're not going to get much time from me.  

And how exactly do they determine, whether one is 3 times more protected to actually get it??

Well, other than getting vaccinated, hoping you won't get it and if you get it, not giving it to your child with whom you're in close proximity all the time, what have you done?
Myself, I had 24 negative tests since May, whenever I was in situations where it was mandated or could have brought me in aforementioned situations, however unlikely (it still is possible to keep somewhat distanced).

What happened to the 4 year old is tragic, but not really the norm. 4 year olds don't regularly drop dead from Covid.

And, just to make clear, I'm not pretending to know more than anyone else. It's just a fact that also the experts don't know it all, as you can find experts arguing in either directions. I just make my decisons for myself. Period.

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

And how exactly do they determine, whether one is 3 times more protected to actually get it??

You enlist about 50,000 people to be part of a clinical trial where half of them get the vaccine and half of them get placebo, but you don't tell them (or their doctor) if they got the vaccine or the placebo. Then you follow them for about 2 months and record the following:

- Who gets Covid-19 and who doesn't. This tells you how well the vaccine protects against getting infected.

- For those who get Covid-19, you record the severity of the symptoms. This tells you how well the vaccine protects you against getting sick if infected.

- And you also record any adverse side effects of the vaccine. This tells you how safe the vaccine is.

[EvanG]

12 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

It's just a fact that also the experts don't know it all, as you can find experts arguing in either directions. I just make my decisons for myself. Period.

In my country 9 out of 10 people in the hospitals right now are unvaccinated, that's a fact too.

Everyone should decide for themselves whether they want to get vaccinated or not, but to me it seems that the vaccines are doing their job so far.

[downzy]

14 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

And how exactly do they determine, whether one is 3 times more protected to actually get it??

It's called double-blind testing.  @SoulMonster provides a great run down of what that means.  The CDC doesn't make up numbers.  Anything they released is based on studies and research.

14 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Well, other than getting vaccinated, hoping you won't get it and if you get it, not giving it to your child with whom you're in close proximity all the time, what have you done?

We limit our exposure to people who have been vaccinated.  We all wear masks in large outdoors social situations or in all indoor social situations.  We have at home rapid Covid-19 antigen tests that we take regularly.  We take it seriously since it's a serious virus and we respect and have concern for everyone else.  We also respect the fact that our actions can affect others, which can't be said about those who shun the vaccine based on nothing more than ignorance or ego.

14 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

What happened to the 4 year old is tragic, but not really the norm. 4 year olds don't regularly drop dead from Covid.

Agreed.  But it was almost certainly avoidable had her Mom been vaccinated.  It's rare, but so unnecessary.  

14 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

It's just a fact that also the experts don't know it all, as you can find experts arguing in either directions. I just make my decisons for myself. Period.

The experts don't know everything, but they know a fuck more than the guys who use to have their science tests returned to them face down and now insist on doing their own research.  The nature of science is that it is always in flux based on the latest findings.  It works towards to truth as a goal.  In no way are anti-vaxxers concerned about truth.  They only concern themselves with serving their own ego or living in denial.  You can make the decision for yourself, but your decision can affect others.  Viral outbreaks is a collective action problem.  They don't get solved by only considering your own needs.  

 

[Gavin82]

15,000 Brits who took part in Novavax trials unable to prove Covid vaccine status (msn.com)

 

Understand we need our jabs but this is crazy

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Did get good news today from CNN, hope they are right, Phyizer has a vaccine for 5 to 11 year olds. If the FDA approves it, it might be ready by the end of October or early November. I hope this is true. I want my daughter vaccinated asap.

There are millions of kids under 11 so this would get more people vaccinated and closer to herd immunity.

[SoulMonster]

Moderna is developing a combined flu/Covid-19 vaccine now. 

That makes a lot of sense to me. It would target two viruses that evolve quickly so an annual bi-functional vaccine against these two would not only results in much less lives lost to Covid-19, but also to flu, and reduce the societal costs of people being away from work and unproductive from both these diseases.

To anyone afraid of needles or just worried about vaccines: I think you should start mentally preparing yourself to annual inoculations. We have for a long time accepted that only risk groups get vaccinated against the flu, but after Covid-19 our views on vaccinations against diseases are changing and I don't think we will accept it in the future. Combining these shots sounds like a perfect solution.

[marlingrl03]

21 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Did get good news today from CNN, hope they are right, Phyizer has a vaccine for 5 to 11 year olds. If the FDA approves it, it might be ready by the end of October or early November. I hope this is true. I want my daughter vaccinated asap.

There are millions of kids under 11 so this would get more people vaccinated and closer to herd immunity.

That's great but lets get those kiddos 0-5...which are in my school. Unvaxxed and unmasked. We need to protect them too. Hopefully soon!!!

[PatrickS77]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:28 AM, SoulMonster said:

You enlist about 50,000 people to be part of a clinical trial where half of them get the vaccine and half of them get placebo, but you don't tell them (or their doctor) if they got the vaccine or the placebo. Then you follow them for about 2 months and record the following:

- Who gets Covid-19 and who doesn't. This tells you how well the vaccine protects against getting infected.

- For those who get Covid-19, you record the severity of the symptoms. This tells you how well the vaccine protects you against getting sick if infected.

- And you also record any adverse side effects of the vaccine. This tells you how safe the vaccine is.

Oh, well. Or maybe it just shows that not everyone gets it and that not everyone who gets it reacts badly to it. Who's to say that someone who's vaccinated, got it and had a mild or no reaction wouldn't also have had a mild reaction without the vaccine?

[PatrickS77]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:57 PM, downzy said:

We limit our exposure to people who have been vaccinated.  We all wear masks in large outdoors social situations or in all indoor social situations.  We have at home rapid Covid-19 antigen tests that we take regularly.  We take it seriously since it's a serious virus and we respect and have concern for everyone else.  We also respect the fact that our actions can affect others, which can't be said about those who shun the vaccine based on nothing more than ignorance or ego.

Well, good on you that you don't think getting vaccinated is all the solution and the only thing to do. Though it's only vaccinated, who can pass it on and vaccinated are less likely to test themselves regularly. Bad on you that you lump everyone refusing to get the vaccination (yet) together and try to imply that they are ignorant, not treating it right and careless. But whatever, everybody does what they need to do for themselves.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Parents in different school districts in Texas are still fighting over masks. So sick of this. I think we should be free to wear a mask, but when it comes to our younger kids, a mask is the only protection for them now. Why is this a problem for some parents?

6 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

That's great but lets get those kiddos 0-5...which are in my school. Unvaxxed and unmasked. We need to protect them too. Hopefully soon!!!

I know I'm so happy to hear about this. Maybe by late October or early November.  It's bad enough waiting and then waiting another 6 weeks until their second shot. We are getting our flu shots on Monday, so that's something.

We all have to keep the younger kids safe until the vaccination is approved and given out. I still don't know why some parents don't get this?

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

10 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Moderna is developing a combined flu/Covid-19 vaccine now. 

That makes a lot of sense to me. It would target two viruses that evolve quickly so an annual bi-functional vaccine against these two would not only results in much less lives lost to Covid-19, but also to flu, and reduce the societal costs of people being away from work and unproductive from both these diseases.

To anyone afraid of needles or just worried about vaccines: I think you should start mentally preparing yourself to annual inoculations. We have for a long time accepted that only risk groups get vaccinated against the flu, but after Covid-19 our views on vaccinations against diseases are changing and I don't think we will accept it in the future. Combining these shots sounds like a perfect solution.

Well, I got my covid vaccines and will get my flu shot on Monday. It would be good if this worked, but since all the other vaccines are by themselves, why combine these two?

[downzy]

8 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Though it's only vaccinated, who can pass it on and vaccinated are less likely to test themselves regularly.

Again, you're far less likely to contract the virus if you have been vaccinated.  So yes you can still pass it on if you become infected, your odds of being infected in the first place is far less than if you choose not to be vaccinated.

8 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Bad on you that you lump everyone refusing to get the vaccination (yet) together and try to imply that they are ignorant, not treating it right and careless

So there's a valid reason (save for the very rare few) for not getting the vaccine?

If it isn't ignorance, selfishness, or carelessness, what explains why someone wouldn't get vaccinated to protect themselves and others?

8 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

But whatever, everybody does what they need to do for themselves.

And that's the problem.

This situation wouldn't have been so bad if enough people gave a shit about others.  Instead too many decided to view the situation as one concerning their freedoms rather a health and safety matter.  

[SoulMonster]

9 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Oh, well. Or maybe it just shows that not everyone gets it and that not everyone who gets it reacts badly to it. Who's to say that someone who's vaccinated, got it and had a mild or no reaction wouldn't also have had a mild reaction without the vaccine?

The data coming out of the clinical trial that I outlined above will give the probability of any given individual getting infected with or without the vaccine, and getting severely sick with or without the vaccine. From these data you also get the probability of someone who experienced mild to no symptoms after having been vaccinated would have experienced similarly mild to no symptoms if he had never been vaccinated.

[SoulMonster]

9 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

But whatever, everybody does what they need to do for themselves.

It is this line of thinking that is the root of the problem. It is all about themselves. Me, me, me! They don't realize -- or don't care about it -- that we vaccinate ourselves to protect the vulnerable in society, not those who are not in danger. I would likely not suffer any bad consequences if I got sick with Covid-19. I don't have any underlying conditions. I am fairly youngish. But I still chose to vaccinate myself because I don't want to be a moronic transferrer of the disease. I don't want to be a strand in the web of spread. I don't want to have to live with the knowledge that the disease moved from me to someone who got seriously sick or even die, like my mother, my wife, maybe my children (who knows?), or anyone else, known or unknown, out of nothing but my own hubris and selfishness. I accept that I live in a society and with that comes certain obligations. To other people. It is not just about me.

[SoulMonster]

Tomorrow at 4pm we are lifting the last of our Covid-19 restrictions. No mask mandate, no social distancing.

[Ratam]

38 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Tomorrow at 4pm we are lifting the last of our Covid-19 restrictions. No mask mandate, no social distancing.

Same here, just from october 1.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

It's a go for the Pfizer booster shot, but I got Moderna vaccine, so I'll be waiting a little longer.

Just want my daughter and other kids under 12 to get their vaccines asap. then I can relax a little bit.

2 hours ago, Ratam said:

Same here, just from october 1.

Everytime the numbers go down, cities and countries lift the restrictions and then the numbers go up again.

Two women from The View tested positive and had to leave the show today. And all those women are vaccinated. I will still distance and wear a mask. This virus isn't go anywhere anytime soon.

[Ratam]

3 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

It's a go for the Pfizer booster shot, but I got Moderna vaccine, so I'll be waiting a little longer.

Just want my daughter and other kids under 12 to get their vaccines asap. then I can relax a little bit.

Everytime the numbers go down, cities and countries lift the restrictions and then the numbers go up again.

Two women from The View tested positive and had to leave the show today. And all those women are vaccinated. I will still distance and wear a mask. This virus isn't go anywhere anytime soon.

Me too still will wear mask. Still seem bit premature to be careless. Think it will be step by step. We'll see.

[RussTCB]

19 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Tomorrow at 4pm we are lifting the last of our Covid-19 restrictions. No mask mandate, no social distancing.

Nice. 

I'm here in Detroit where restrictions have been lifted for a while. I just dropped my wife off at the airport this morning and she's headed to Las Vegas where there's a mask mandate still. Not sure what their rules are for social distancing though.