Covid-19 Thread

[Coma16]

Why doesn't the government ban junk foods and most cereals?

Why doesn't the government outlaw cigarettes? 

Why doesn't the government force people to exercise?

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

Why doesn't the government ban junk foods and most cereals?

Why doesn't the government outlaw cigarettes? 

Why doesn't the government force people to exercise?

Yeah, these analogies only works if unhealthiness were contagious too, so that it wasn't just life choices affecting the individual but society as a whole. Think harder. 

[Coma16]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, these analogies only works if unhealthiness were contagious too, so that it wasn't just life choices affecting the individual but society as a whole. Think harder. 

It eats up medical resources. Many in the ICU are obese.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Coma16 said:

It eats up medical resources. Many in the ICU are obese.

That's right. You are in a the US? Just imagine how it is in a welfare country like Norway with free healthcare. We all pay through our taxes for treatments of lung cancer etc. More and more people here are of the opinion that if you choose unhealthy life choices then you can't expect society to cover the associated health bills. 

Anyway, it hasn't got that far yet, so you still get treated for free. But causing potential harm to others through not getting vaccinated goes beyond that. That is unacceptable. 

[Coma16]

We'll agree to disagree. You're invested in big pharma so you'll never get it.

[Rovim]

41 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

We'll agree to disagree. You're invested in big pharma so you'll never get it.

it's not about others and their own agendas. It's ego, ignorance, and fear.

even after the pandemic killed more than 4.5 million people. Impressive. All the evidence in the world wouldn't be enough for some people.

if you don't get the vaccine, you put yourself and other people at risk for no good reason. Everything else is just bullshit you repeat/tell yourself.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Rovim

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

That's right. You are in a the US? Just imagine how it is in a welfare country like Norway with free healthcare.

Yeah! Sort it out you fat cunt!  

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

We'll agree to disagree. You're invested in big pharma so you'll never get it.

Nah, I represent small biotech. Very different. 

What won't I get? There is absolutely no rational reason to not get vaccinated. Give me a reason not borne out of fear or ignorance. 

[Homefuck]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Sounds childish.

But I am sure there are anti-vaxxers saying he shouldn't get vaccinated, too, so why has he got more problem with smart people saying he should get vaccinated and not stupid people saying he shouldn't?  @Sweersa?

In behavioural psychology this behaviour is explained as "psychological reactance". Here's a short article that sums it up:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/health.clevelandclinic.org/why-we-dont-like-being-told-what-to-do/amp/

[downzy]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Sounds childish.

Welcome to modern day politics amongst the entitled.  

[downzy]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

16% of medical workers in NYC (about 70K), so not just janitors.... you can find plenty of news articles on Google.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/26/nyregion/health-workers-vaccination.html

"The dispute is dividing hospitals, where most workers are vaccinated and want their colleagues to be. The nurses’ union supports the mandate — some 95 percent of members are already vaccinated — even as some members complain its rollout was too rushed. But unions representing support workers, including nurses’ aides, orderlies, cafeteria workers and others, have opposed it. If many of those workers leave or are fired, their duties could fall to already taxed nurses."

As expected, it's mostly support staff who aren't actually involved in the hands-on, day-to-day care of patients.

It also appears that most of the unvaccinated medical workers come from rural, more conservative leaning areas.  Cities and larger urban areas won't be as effected.  

 

[ZoSoRose]

7 hours ago, downzy said:

The Sun, huh?  Must be true.

Seriously though, you're probably correct.  We'll never know.  And moreover, I've always felt it really doesn't matter.  Unless they can prove that China purposely released the virus rather than some form of accident, there's not much we can or would want to do about it (other, of course, trying to make sure that these accidents don't happen again).  That said, closing wet markets would be a great start.  

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that rag quoted with a straight face

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

An old man in Montana wasn't vaccinated. He got covid and was in the hospital ICU. He couldn't walk or feed himself. He made it and of course he will get vaccinated once he's well. Maybe he she have thought about this before he got sick and took up a bed and many hours nurses and doctors had to care for him.

If you don't get vaccinated, then don't go to a hospital if/when you get the virus, because you are taking up a much needed bed for other sick people.

I'm sick of people who are making getting vaccinated a big deal. Just get it and keep yourself and others around you safe. If you don't, then you are just showing everyone how selfish you really are.

Numbers are still going up in the US and now many states want to make masks mandated in schools even if they have a moron for a governor like Texas does.

Until we can get the younger kids, like my daughter vaccinated, we have to do whatever it takes to keep them safe. With the who US schools open now, more younger kids are getting the virus. Most are okay, but some get sick and some die. I think one more child dying is one too many.

Be thankful we have a vacccine, so shut up and get it! Of stay in your house and away from other people who cared to do the right thing.

[Sweersa]

5 hours ago, Coma16 said:

Why doesn't the government ban junk foods and most cereals?

Why doesn't the government outlaw cigarettes? 

Why doesn't the government force people to exercise?

Because all of those would be healthier for the individual than any vaccine. The government knows people are lazy too. It's easy for some fat fuck to get a shot or two and feel like they are invincible, than work hard to achieve a healthy weight.

[Sweersa]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

But I am sure there are anti-vaxxers saying he shouldn't get vaccinated, too, so why has he got more problem with smart people saying he should get vaccinated and not stupid people saying he shouldn't?  @Sweersa?

I simply leave people alone, and expect they do the same for me. I've heard the same arguments before on firearms. I happen to collect, and lawfully use firearms that many would blindly assume are "assault rifles" and tell me no one should be able to use them, myself included because they can, on rare occasion relative to the number that are in circulation, be used to wrongly kill people.

If I die as a result of not being vaccinated, that's on me, and I was unfit to survive, and so be it. If my state of not being vaccinated somehow kills someone else, too bad. They were unfit to survive apparently. Those concerned, should get vaccinated and wear masks if it bothers them so much. Like the people bitching at people for not wearing masks, just keep your ass inside your home if it bothers you that much. These are the same people who think it's safe to walk into a restaurant with their mask on, then take it off when they are seated, meanwhile, the HVAC is circulating air within their zones. Give me a break. 

In short, there are some risks inherent with living in a free society. I happen to be comfortable with these risks. 

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I simply leave people alone, and expect they do the same for me. I've heard the same arguments before on firearms. I happen to collect, and lawfully use firearms that many would blindly assume are "assault rifles" and tell me no one should be able to use them, myself included because they can, on rare occasion relative to the number that are in circulation, be used to wrongly kill people.

If I die as a result of not being vaccinated, that's on me, and I was unfit to survive, and so be it. If my state of not being vaccinated somehow kills someone else, too bad. They were unfit to survive apparently. Those concerned, should get vaccinated and wear masks if it bothers them so much. Like the people bitching at people for not wearing masks, just keep your ass inside your home if it bothers you that much. These are the same people who think it's safe to walk into a restaurant with their mask on, then take it off when they are seated, meanwhile, the HVAC is circulating air within their zones. Give me a break. 

In short, there are some risks inherent with living in a free society. I happen to be comfortable with these risks. 

The exact same way of thinking can be used on driving and speed limits:

I leave people alone but when they tell me I can't drive in 60 mph down this school road I just refuse. They can't tell me what to do. And if I die in a car crash, that's one me, and I was unfit to survive, and so be it. And if my crash somehow kills someone else too, too bad. They were unfit to survive apparently. 

So you happen to be comfortable with the risks....others have to accept because you refuse to get vaccinated. Well, applause to you for being such a tough guy and willing to live on the edge and not care about others you endanger through your own refusal to just spend 30 minutes of your life to get a free vaccine. No amount of guns can hide the fact that you are still an irresponsible little child. I think you should grow up and spend those 30 minutes to maybe, just maybe, save the life of a immunocompromised child who can't get vaccinated, a frail elderly man who still after getting vaccinated would die if he got the disease, or some backwards moron who refuse to get vaccinated because she believes the vaccines contains a tracking device. 

 

[Sweersa]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The exact same way of thinking can be used on driving and speed limits:

I leave people alone but when they tell me I can't drive in 60 mph down this school road I just refuse. They can't tell me what to do. And if I die in a car crash, that's one me, and I was unfit to survive, and so be it. And if my crash somehow kills someone else too, too bad. They were unfit to survive apparently. 

So you happen to be comfortable with the risks....others have to accept because you refuse to get vaccinated. Well, applause to you for being such a tough guy and willing to live on the edge and not care about others you endanger through your own refusal to just spend 30 minutes of your life to get a free vaccine. No amount of guns can hide the fact that you are still an irresponsible little child. I think you should grow up and spend those 30 minutes to maybe, just maybe, save the life of a immunocompromised child who can't get vaccinated, a frail elderly man who still after getting vaccinated would die if he got the disease, or some backwards moron who refuse to get vaccinated because she believes the vaccines contains a tracking device. 

 

Driving is a privilege, not a right. But I understand your point.

No one is going to try to guilt me into getting "the shot" There are doctors who have similar perspectives, so I'm not some outlier. It goes both ways too. In your driving example, we could require hans devices, roll cages, and helmets for all vehicles/occupants, that would no doubt reduce vehicular deaths, but life is all about balance. I suppose to you, I'm part of the balance. 

[Homefuck]

2 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Driving is a privilege, not a right. But I understand your point.

No one is going to try to guilt me into getting "the shot" There are doctors who have similar perspectives, so I'm not some outlier. It goes both ways too. In your driving example, we could require hans devices, roll cages, and helmets for all vehicles/occupants, that would no doubt reduce vehicular deaths, but life is all about balance. I suppose to you, I'm part of the balance. 

I'm curious of why you're not getting the shot? Maybe you've already written about your reasons, in that case, I missed it.

And: if your government started to impose vaccine passes that makes it near impossible for you to lead a normal life, would you get the shot then?

No blame or pressure, I'm just curious about your reasoning.

[EvanG]

I can somewhat understand people still being afraid of getting vaccinated because it's a relatively new vaccine and they're not sure about it. I don't share this sentiment, I believe the smart people who know so much more than me, but everyone is different. But those who are afraid of needles or aren't getting it just for the sake of being a contrarian, should man up already.

[action]

22 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, these analogies only works if unhealthiness were contagious too, so that it wasn't just life choices affecting the individual but society as a whole. Think harder. 

lung cancer, heart disease and obesity, while not contageous (although you can get lung cancer from second hand smoke), kill exponentially more people each year, than covid. So this has a large impact on society as a whole. the only reason covid has the impact it does, is because of government regulations and a historic lack of investment in hospitals

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, Homefuck said:

I'm curious of why you're not getting the shot? Maybe you've already written about your reasons, in that case, I missed it.

And: if your government started to impose vaccine passes that makes it near impossible for you to lead a normal life, would you get the shot then?

No blame or pressure, I'm just curious about your reasoning.

Thank you for being civil.

I am a fairly young, healthy person and don't feel even the slight risk of the vaccine is worth it to me. I'd rather fight off covid naturally. I was never into flu shots, but have taken other vaccines over the years, so I'm not against the concept. And also on a more personal level, I was never against vaccinations of any kind until a few years back, doctors believe my aunt was fucked up badly by a flu shot. She's still not the same, almost killed her, she has serious stroke like symptoms now.  Perhaps some external factor contributed to her ordeal, such as the flu shot not stored properly, etc. or a fluke, but I just don't want to introduce something into my body to combat something I'd more than likely survive, should I get infected. I've heard of athletes getting messed up from some of the vaccines too.  I don't think my health status poses a major risk to others, especially if they are already vaccinated, save for the occasional elderly person or child, whom of which I almost never interact with. In fact, I'm not exactly one to go out much, so I would pose little threat anyways.

I live in an area (very rural, self sustainable) where it would be quite easy to resist any imposing regulations with the vaccine(s). But no, I wouldn't cave over the principal of it. I'm dating a woman in the medical/nutrition field of study who got a religious exemption, because she's in a state and school where they require vaccination, or an exemption. 

 

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Thank you for being civil.

I am a fairly young, healthy person and don't feel even the slight risk of the vaccine is worth it to me. I'd rather fight off covid naturally. I was never into flu shots, but have taken other vaccines over the years, so I'm not against the concept. And also on a more personal level, I was never against vaccinations of any kind until a few years back, doctors believe my aunt was fucked up badly by a flu shot. She's still not the same, almost killed her, she has serious stroke like symptoms now.  Perhaps some external factor contributed to her ordeal, such as the flu shot not stored properly, etc. or a fluke, but I just don't want to introduce something into my body to combat something I'd more than likely survive, should I get infected. I've heard of athletes getting messed up from some of the vaccines too.  

If the reason you won't take the vaccine is that you believe the vaccine poses more health risk to you than Covid-19, then I have great news for you! It doesn't and we have an abundance of data to support this. 

Now, will you now get the vaccine knowing it is the safe choice? 

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I don't think my health status poses a major risk to others, especially if they are already vaccinated, save for the occasional elderly person or child

good point. Didn't think of it like that plus if someone loses their child because you infected them I wouldn't worry about it. They can always make another one or adopt. As for the elderly: they're going to die fairly soon anyway.

[Sweersa]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If the reason you won't take the vaccine is that you believe the vaccine poses more health risk to you than Covid-19, then I have great news for you! It doesn't and we have an abundance of data to support this. 

Now, will you now get the vaccine knowing it is the safe choice? 

No. I don't think anyone can say something something so new is safe, it has a lack of history.

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

good point. Didn't think of it like that plus if someone loses their child because you infected them I wouldn't worry about it. They can always make another one or adopt. As for the elderly: they're going to die fairly soon anyway.

People get sick. It is what it is. Maybe we should all wear sealed gas masks with the correct filters because it would save lives.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

No. I don't think anyone can say something something so new is safe, it has a lack of history. 

There is absolutely zero scientific evidence suggesting you run a larger health risk from the vaccines than from Covid-19. We know a lot about the vaccines long-term effect, and nothing suggests any adverse effects in the long run, and this is substantiated through animal studies, molecular models, and in vivo studies. From Covid-19 though, we don't know that much and there is some evidence suggesting a significant chance for permanent tissue damage. So if you are worried about long-term health issues, you should get the vaccine. 

Will you now take the vaccine?