anybody else pissed off by Izzy?

[hsvhsv28]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:23 PM, ChristmasFnatic said:

Well, I just hope Izzy will at least make new music with guest appearance from former bandmates like in this video with Slash.

https://youtu.be/Ty5WP355YjA?si=Zy5LH-DtDp9Jjdbn

This is Rick Richards. 

[Rovim]

4 hours ago, Billy Cundy said:

Axl’s ‘fear’ of Matt was probably more of a rooted in his discomfort with Matt’s unwillingness to entertain all of Axl’s dictatorial aspirations. Axl knew duff, slash and Izzy were a soft touch and would lay down rather than challenge him. The slightest sniff of insubordination or challenge to authority  scares control freaks. 

Musicians are generally wimps who avoid physical fighting, as they should. Don’t think anyone was worried about that. 

Matt was willing to entertain a lot just to be in Gn'R. Like using the same drum fill on UYI in many cases cause that's what Axl wanted. He eventually got fired for running his big mouth. Then he said he talked too much shit about Axl in the press for Axl to want to collaborate with him in a Gn'R context, in any capacity I would think.

also it wasn't smooth sailing with Slash and Duff either. I think he's a great drummer. Some find him kinda boring and mechanical, but I think he has a unique sound and style which I like, but all these times he "stood up" to Axl seems to have happened cause he was too boneheaded to understand that Axl was Axl and it wasn't going to help matters a lot if a non original drummer didn't know his place and ran his mouth....and unsurprisingly... it didn't help imo.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Rovim

[hudsonsaul]

8 minutes ago, Billy Cundy said:

Axl’s ‘fear’ of Matt was probably more of a rooted in his discomfort with Matt’s unwillingness to entertain all of Axl’s dictatorial aspirations. Axl knew duff, slash and Izzy were a soft touch and would lay down rather than challenge him. The slightest sniff of insubordination or challenge to authority  scares control freaks. 

Musicians are generally wimps who avoid physical fighting, as they should. Don’t think anyone was worried about that. 

Matt comes across as one of the softest in the whole group. As well as the least disingenuous. 

Not sure about the musician wimps comment though. 

 

 

 

[ChineseDemocracy2004]

5 hours ago, DTV88 said:

What was the timing on that tweet? I’m wondering if it he was specifically referring to the Coachella pay-out. There wasn’t a full tour planned until after they had all played together for a while, right?

IIRC Izzy tweeted that he wasn't involved with Coachella before their shows and his loot comment was after Axl and Duff did an interview for South American television.

[DoMw94]

On 8/30/2023 at 6:38 PM, Cosmo said:

I think the "situation" with the drums is a lot worse than in the rhythm guitar department. I mean... ok, Izzy doesn't want to do it, it's his call. Maybe they could've called Gilby but I think Axl wanted Richard cause of the CD stuff but... why Frank? I get it, Steven is a bit unreliable, and I feel really sorry for him as he seems like troubled but really kind person. But what about Matt? Did Matt have an even worse beef with Axl somehow? Or did they just ignore Matt because of Frank? Cause Matt is on a whole other level, IMO. Dude's one of the best drummers out there, IMO.

It's a lot less complicated than that. Slash and Duff filled vacant positions. Richard and Frank never left, so bringing in Izzy, Gilby (why?!), Steven, or Matt as full members was never a thought. You're not booting someone for the sake of it.

Slash and Duff filled empty spots, just like the people before them. The rhythm and drum spots weren't empty, so no need for the band to think of the others

[allwaystired]

18 minutes ago, hudsonsaul said:

Matt comes across as one of the softest in the whole group. As well as the least disingenuous. 

Not sure about the musician wimps comment though. 

 

 

 

He came across as an absolute moron in his book. 

[Billy Cundy]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

Matt was willing to entertain a lot just to be in Gn'R. Like using the same drum fill on UYI in many cases cause that's what Axl wanted. He eventually got fired for running his big mouth. Then he said he talked too much shit about Axl in the press for Axl to want to collaborate with him in a Gn'R context, in any capacity I would think.

also it wasn't smooth sailing with Slash and Duff either. I think he's a great drummer. Some find him kinda boring and mechanical, but I think he has a unique sound and style which I like, but all these times he "stood up" for Axl seems to have happened cause he was too boneheaded to understand that Axl was Axl and it wasn't going to help matters a lot if a non original drummer didn't know his place and ran his mouth....and unsurprisingly... it didn't help imo.

He’s a fucking wicked drummer, I am glad his tenure in VR gave us a chance to hear what he could do with less dated production. The drum sound on Libertad is killer. Great player. Exactly the type of guy you want behind you in a stadium!

[Frankfurt93]

I see people are mixing up quiet a lot of shit in this thread.

 

1. Frank, Fortus and that chick are not there cause the others left and they hadn't. That is absolutely most silly remark. Those tools have no saying in the band whatsoever. They are not even on the merch or posters (unlikw Matt and Gilby).

They are cheapest tools who are told where and when to be period. Only reason they are there - give Axl leverage over Slash and Duff.

2. People don't miss Iz per se. We just don't want to see any of that post UYI crap being released. With Iz it was all hits. Post UYI's - all miss. HS/Absurd/Perhaps prpve it takes a lot more to have new Jungle/Breakdown/YCBM/Locomotive than the 3.

 

3. The reason we are ok with Matt and Gilby is cause Iz left on his terms, Adler was unusable. Matt and Gilby were first replacements and were perfect fit in every aspect (as someone mentioned not too long ago, Gilby's playing on TSI plays Fortus best to the ground any day). Matt - just look at YCBM, studio or live....

Plus....They were FIRST replacements.   Fortus and Frank are replacement of the 15th replacement. People naturaly want the BEST or second best solutions

[Cosmo]

1 hour ago, DoMw94 said:

It's a lot less complicated than that. Slash and Duff filled vacant positions. Richard and Frank never left, so bringing in Izzy, Gilby (why?!), Steven, or Matt as full members was never a thought. You're not booting someone for the sake of it.

Slash and Duff filled empty spots, just like the people before them. The rhythm and drum spots weren't empty, so no need for the band to think of the others

That's true. But didn't Pitman split with GnR in a bad way? I thought it was cause he got booted.

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, Cosmo said:

That's true. But didn't Pitman split with GnR in a bad way? I thought it was cause he got booted.

What happend was that Chris would first indicate he would be part of the reunion-lineup (late 2015/early 2016), but then he was asked to retract such statements by Team Brazil. At the same time he updated his Twitter account to not state he was part of the band anymore - clearly indicating he was not part of the lineup. Then, about a month later, he started slamming the reunion. 

So he wasn't fired because he went public about his thoughts about the nostalgia, cash-grab tour, it happend about a month before. But we don't know why he was fired.

[Karice]

2 hours ago, Billy Cundy said:

Axl’s ‘fear’ of Matt was probably more of a rooted in his discomfort with Matt’s unwillingness to entertain all of Axl’s dictatorial aspirations. Axl knew duff, slash and Izzy were a soft touch and would lay down rather than challenge him. The slightest sniff of insubordination or challenge to authority  scares control freaks. 

Musicians are generally wimps who avoid physical fighting, as they should. Don’t think anyone was worried about that. 

I remember on another Guns N'Roses Fan Website asking something like, "WHY didn't Slash, Izzy, Duff,  Matt, or a Band Manager grab Axl's hot headed ass at Riverport Concert when he announced he was going home and stormed off to the backstage? They should never have let Axl leave!" The answer was something like,"Trying to physically stop Axl from leaving would have been a nightmare. Axl had a nightmarish temper and this wouldn't be pretty. He would NOT comply peacefully when he's in his angry, beyond pissed off mood."

 

I responded something like,"Okay, maybe a MANAGER shouldn't have tried to physically stop Axl from leaving, but surely Axl would be nicer to Slash, Duff, Izzy, or Matt trying to physically stop him from leaving, right?" The answer was something like,"Slash, Duff, and Izzy were too scared of Axl to physically stop him from leaving. Matt was the closest person to having the guts to physically stop Axl from leaving as Matt threatened to knock out Axl before when Axl wanted to stay in his dressing room and not go out and perform on stage and Axl ran to the stage, scared because he didn't want Matt to knock him out!" 🤣🤭

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

What happend was that Chris would first indicate he would be part of the reunion-lineup (late 2015/early 2016), but then he was asked to retract such statements by Team Brazil. At the same time he updated his Twitter account to not state he was part of the band anymore - clearly indicating he was not part of the lineup. Then, about a month later, he started slamming the reunion. 

So he wasn't fired because he went public about his thoughts about the nostalgia, cash-grab tour, it happend about a month before. But we don't know why he was fired.

There was an almost two-month gap between his tweets about Coachella (January) and the time Melissa joined (March). His cash grab posts were in late February.

So maybe his status in the band probably remained unclear and he wasn't fired for good until late February - because I doubt they would have waited for so long to replace him, with shows ahead of them in April, if he had been fired already in January. Brain has implied that he got the call about Melissa right after Chris was fired.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Blackstar

[SoulMonster]

56 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

There was an almost two-month gap between his tweets about Coachella (January) and the time Melissa joined (March). His cash grab posts were in late February.

So maybe his status in the band probably remained unclear and he wasn't fired for good until late February - because I doubt they would have waited for so long to replace him, with shows ahead of them in April, if he had been fired already in January. Brain has implied that he got the call about Melissa right after Chris was fired.

I think Chris' position was uncertain in January, when he was told to not state that he would play at Coachella and then updated his Twitter profile to not include being presently part of the band, and I don't think he would have done the latter if he at that time didn't feel he was out of the band. Maybe the band saw if differently and still considered him as an option, but if so that is tragically poor man management. By late February, when he criticized the band, I suspect there was some conflict, possibly the realization that they disagreed on his backpay, causing the outburst (and later a lawsuit). They probably started looking for an alternative to Chris sooner, probably already back in January when his position was uncertain, but yes, Melissa was first contacted in early March, first by Caram and then by Brain, and she quickly joined. 

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

What happend was that Chris would first indicate he would be part of the reunion-lineup (late 2015/early 2016), but then he was asked to retract such statements by Team Brazil. At the same time he updated his Twitter account to not state he was part of the band anymore - clearly indicating he was not part of the lineup. Then, about a month later, he started slamming the reunion. 

So he wasn't fired because he went public about his thoughts about the nostalgia, cash-grab tour, it happend about a month before. But we don't know why he was fired.

we know he was fired due to being a dildo, we just need the specifics. Melissa is a great singer on top of the sub-bass capabilities anyway. It's like he wasn't thankful for winning the lottery imho. Dizzy seems to be for example.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Rovim

[allwaystired]

3 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

I see people are mixing up quiet a lot of shit in this thread.

 

1. Frank, Fortus and that chick are not there cause the others left and they hadn't. That is absolutely most silly remark. Those tools have no saying in the band whatsoever. They are not even on the merch or posters (unlikw Matt and Gilby).

They are cheapest tools who are told where and when to be period. Only reason they are there - give Axl leverage over Slash and Duff.

2. People don't miss Iz per se. We just don't want to see any of that post UYI crap being released. With Iz it was all hits. Post UYI's - all miss. HS/Absurd/Perhaps prpve it takes a lot more to have new Jungle/Breakdown/YCBM/Locomotive than the 3.

 

3. The reason we are ok with Matt and Gilby is cause Iz left on his terms, Adler was unusable. Matt and Gilby were first replacements and were perfect fit in every aspect (as someone mentioned not too long ago, Gilby's playing on TSI plays Fortus best to the ground any day). Matt - just look at YCBM, studio or live....

Plus....They were FIRST replacements.   Fortus and Frank are replacement of the 15th replacement. People naturaly want the BEST or second best solutions

If you (no 'we' in that comment) don't want to see "any of that post UYI crap released" then surely it would have been best to stop having any interest in the band since 1991? 

Most people want new music and have accepted the fact that Izzy (or 'Iz' as you prefer) is gone from the band and quite likely isn't coming back. 

Fair enough if you don't like the band as it is now, but it really isn't changing. And most of us hope that we get lots of that "post UYI crap" as you refer to it released. 

Perhaps GNR with a lineup of "tools" releasing "crap" just aren't for you? 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by allwaystired

[Rovim]

14 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

If you (no 'we' in that comment) don't want to see "any of that post UYI crap released" then surely it would have been best to stop having any interest in the band since 1991? 

Most people want new music and have accepted the fact that Izzy (or 'Iz' as you prefer) is gone from the band and quite likely isn't coming back. 

Fair enough if you don't like the band as it is now, but it really isn't changing. And most of us hope that we get lots of that "post UYI crap" as you refer to it released. 

Perhaps GNR with a lineup of "tools" releasing "crap" just aren't for you? 

 

he drops by sometimes, crying about his pal 'Iz' and how current Gn'R sucks, and then he goes away. That seems to be his process.

[DoMw94]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I think Chris' position was uncertain in January, when he was told to not state that he would play at Coachella

Nothing was said about Richard or Frank either though. It always seemed as if Chris was told to keep quiet just to keep up the intrigue about the lineup. I always thought it was a given that his comments about the "cash grab" etc were what directly led to his firing

[Martin Riggs]

4 hours ago, Karice said:

I remember on another Guns N'Roses Fan Website asking something like, "WHY didn't Slash, Izzy, Duff,  Matt, or a Band Manager grab Axl's hot headed ass at Riverport Concert when he announced he was going home and stormed off to the backstage? They should never have let Axl leave!" The answer was something like,"Trying to physically stop Axl from leaving would have been a nightmare. Axl had a nightmarish temper and this wouldn't be pretty. He would NOT comply peacefully when he's in his angry, beyond pissed off mood."

 

I responded something like,"Okay, maybe a MANAGER shouldn't have tried to physically stop Axl from leaving, but surely Axl would be nicer to Slash, Duff, Izzy, or Matt trying to physically stop him from leaving, right?" The answer was something like,"Slash, Duff, and Izzy were too scared of Axl to physically stop him from leaving. Matt was the closest person to having the guts to physically stop Axl from leaving as Matt threatened to knock out Axl before when Axl wanted to stay in his dressing room and not go out and perform on stage and Axl ran to the stage, scared because he didn't want Matt to knock him out!" 🤣🤭

If it would’ve came down to it, I don’t think Axl would’ve got fresh with Slash or Duff. Too much history. He might’ve tried with Matt but Sorum was considerably bigger and would’ve put him in his place imo. I’m not a big fan of physical shit in general but it’s probably exactly what Axl needed.  🤷‍♂️ 

[allwaystired]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

he drops by sometimes, crying about his pal 'Iz' and how current Gn'R sucks, and then he goes away. That seems to be his process.

Whatever gets you through the day I suppose.....just seems odd to me that you'd still have any interest in a band whose lineup you don't like that haven't released anything you like since 1991! 

I think I'd have checked out a long time ago! Kudos for commitment in some ways.....

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, DoMw94 said:

Nothing was said about Richard or Frank either though. 

Rhythm guitarist (second lead?) and drummer is more important than whoever plays second keyboard; they need to interact more closely with the lead guitarist and the bassist, especially the drummer since they provide the foundation, the groove, the music rests on. What happened was that Axl wanted to continue with Frank and Richard, but since it would all fall apart if they didn't work with Slash and Duff, the four of them starting rehearsing together in January, first with Frank and later also with Richard, with Richard and (likely) Frank being on a trial period. If it hadn't worked out, they would have been replaced (and one can ponder who would have been called in to replace them...). This rehearsal/trial period was finished by March 14 when the signatures of Frank and Richard were included when the band signed off on a drum head (Chris' signature was missing - Melissa had just joined the band or was just about to), proving that Frank and Richard were indeed (still) part of the lineup. The new lineup played their first show a few weeks later, on April 1. But yeah, there wasn't any fanfare to announce the new lineup, and Frank and Richard's inclusion haven't really been given any attention by the band these last years (but nice to see them more prominently featured in the Perhaps video).

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

I have a feeling a lot of it was also personality-based. Axl might be running this show, but Slash and Duff wouldn’t join a completely miserable situation. I’m sure Axl took stock of his lineup and chose who would work well together. Slash and Duff clearly like Richard - there seems to be a mutual respect between them. And, despite what Matt Sorum and other drum geniuses here say about Frank’s playing, he seems like a good dude and easy to get along with.

Chris Pitman seemed a little too up his own ass for a second keyboard player.

—

But anyway, back to Izzy…

Axl, to me, seems the most hurt that Izzy isn’t involved. Izzy’s his old pal from Indiana - they have the longest history together. He expressed frustration with Izzy in the Brazilian interview but never went so far as to slam him, outright. And he’s always telling Izzy anecdotes from the stage. Axl wouldn’t budge on his demands, but I bet he’s frustrated that his friend isn’t there.

[Blackstar]

11 hours ago, Karice said:

I remember on another Guns N'Roses Fan Website asking something like, "WHY didn't Slash, Izzy, Duff,  Matt, or a Band Manager grab Axl's hot headed ass at Riverport Concert when he announced he was going home and stormed off to the backstage? They should never have let Axl leave!" The answer was something like,"Trying to physically stop Axl from leaving would have been a nightmare. Axl had a nightmarish temper and this wouldn't be pretty. He would NOT comply peacefully when he's in his angry, beyond pissed off mood."

I responded something like,"Okay, maybe a MANAGER shouldn't have tried to physically stop Axl from leaving, but surely Axl would be nicer to Slash, Duff, Izzy, or Matt trying to physically stop him from leaving, right?" The answer was something like,"Slash, Duff, and Izzy were too scared of Axl to physically stop him from leaving. Matt was the closest person to having the guts to physically stop Axl from leaving as Matt threatened to knock out Axl before when Axl wanted to stay in his dressing room and not go out and perform on stage and Axl ran to the stage, scared because he didn't want Matt to knock him out!" 🤣🤭

Fans on the internet say a lot of things. Some are true and some are not. This story with Matt and Axl is not true.

Matt himself and Doug Goldstein (then manager) have explained what really happened. One time, Matt was really angry at Axl because he was in his dressing room and wouldn't go on stage. So he wanted to go in there and confront him. Doug Goldstein and the crew wouldn't let Matt in, but they finally did after Matt insisted. So Matt went into Axl's dressing room and he saw him sitting there and having something like a panic attack. They talked and Axl felt better after a while, and he went on stage.

[Blackstar]

5 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

But anyway, back to Izzy…

Axl, to me, seems the most hurt that Izzy isn’t involved. Izzy’s his old pal from Indiana - they have the longest history together. He expressed frustration with Izzy in the Brazilian interview but never went so far as to slam him, outright. And he’s always telling Izzy anecdotes from the stage. Axl wouldn’t budge on his demands, but I bet he’s frustrated that his friend isn’t there.

I agree. I think Axl was always the one who missed Izzy the most and it's obvious why. Slash was fine with Gilby in the UYI era, but Axl still missed Izzy and he was also the first one to realize that the band would have difficulty in creating new music without Izzy.

[-W.A.R-]

[DTV88]

21 hours ago, Martin Riggs said:

If it would’ve came down to it, I don’t think Axl would’ve got fresh with Slash or Duff. Too much history. He might’ve tried with Matt but Sorum was considerably bigger and would’ve put him in his place imo. I’m not a big fan of physical shit in general but it’s probably exactly what Axl needed.  🤷‍♂️ 

Abuse survivors tend to not respond positively to further physical attacks