01/01/01 HOB 20 years ago

[jamillos]

12 minutes ago, BangoSkank said:

Watching this for the first time since it first leaked and God does Axl sound awesome. 

As much as I supported (and still love) New Guns it really makes you wonder where we'd be if this was just labelled solo project. 

My guess is Axl would thrust his fists against the posts and still insist he sees the ghosts.

[lame ass security]

I was thinking about it being 20 years the other day, pretty unbelievable. I recently watched some of the vid and have to admit it was pretty great. Axl sounded and looked badass.

[mystery]

3 hours ago, Chewy2 said:

I didn't know this video finally surfaced until I just saw this thread.  I just watched parts of it and the first thing that I immediately noticed is how normal Axl looks.  He really just looks like he aged appropriately since he was last in the public eye in 1993.  Wasn't he seen a few weeks after this at a Lakers game and then disappeared again for while?  And when he came back he looked completely different IIRC. 

Honestly even at HOB his looks had changed. He looked like an approximation of what you'd think he'd look like but still noticeably different from the 90s.

He's obviously wearing a wig and his face just doesn't look natural compared to the past.

He was seen in June 2001 at a 76ers/Lakers finals game in Philadelphia. This was shortly after their summer tour was canceled. He looks very different there. 

December 2001 was the shows at the Joint. He'd noticeably slimmed down and had visible abs. He looked similar to Jan 2001. 

I'd like to know what happened between the Joint shows and summer 2002 because he was full on cornrows and baggy jerseys by then

[uzi your illusion]

This was the official start of me waiting for Axl to takeover the world again. And there were certainly glimpses of when I thought it could be a reality. This show, Rio '01, MSG '02, CD release in '08, 2006/2007/2010 tours, But it really wasnt until probably the end of 2010 when it dawned on me that even though I wanted to see him as the top rock star in the world, he never really gave a shit about whether or not the rest of the world saw him that way. He was just trying to get his music out there and juggle expectations that the bands legacy required as well as whatever he had going on personally through the years. And that will just have to be enough for you as a fan or else you will be severely disappointed.

Do you guys think there was a time [post 2000] where Axl really cared about being in the biggest band in the world again? 

[SAU3R]

1 hour ago, uzi your illusion said:

Do you guys think there was a time [post 2000] where Axl really cared about being in the biggest band in the world

Yes, when he joined AC/DC in 2016

[Chewy2]

3 hours ago, mystery said:

Honestly even at HOB his looks had changed. He looked like an approximation of what you'd think he'd look like but still noticeably different from the 90s.

He's obviously wearing a wig and his face just doesn't look natural compared to the past.

He was seen in June 2001 at a 76ers/Lakers finals game in Philadelphia. This was shortly after their summer tour was canceled. He looks very different there. 

December 2001 was the shows at the Joint. He'd noticeably slimmed down and had visible abs. He looked similar to Jan 2001. 

I'd like to know what happened between the Joint shows and summer 2002 because he was full on cornrows and baggy jerseys by then

Wow, I hadn't even noticed that he was wearing a wig when I skimmed through the video earlier today.  Now that you pointed it out it's glaringly obvious.  I wonder what happened to his hair in 3 years because I think it was 1998 that he had that mug shot & he looked perfectly normal there from what I remember.  So much mystery.

[F*ck Fear]

All I know is that regardless of how he looked or whatever, he fucking rocked it @ HOB '01.

I wish the quality of the video was better.

[The Holographic Universe]

3 hours ago, uzi your illusion said:

This was the official start of me waiting for Axl to takeover the world again. And there were certainly glimpses of when I thought it could be a reality. This show, Rio '01, MSG '02, CD release in '08, 2006/2007/2010 tours, But it really wasnt until probably the end of 2010 when it dawned on me that even though I wanted to see him as the top rock star in the world, he never really gave a shit about whether or not the rest of the world saw him that way. He was just trying to get his music out there and juggle expectations that the bands legacy required as well as whatever he had going on personally through the years. And that will just have to be enough for you as a fan or else you will be severely disappointed.

Do you guys think there was a time [post 2000] where Axl really cared about being in the biggest band in the world again? 

Yes, he stated Finck could be his Randy Rhodes, so he was certainly was thinking about GNR being relevant. In the end, he just reunited with Slash/Duff and GNR became huge again. 

[The Holographic Universe]

1 hour ago, Chewy2 said:

Wow, I hadn't even noticed that he was wearing a wig when I skimmed through the video earlier today.  Now that you pointed it out it's glaringly obvious.  I wonder what happened to his hair in 3 years because I think it was 1998 that he had that mug shot & he looked perfectly normal there from what I remember.  So much mystery.

The mugshot was fake hair. It’s pretty obvious.

[NTONIUS]

So pissed rn.  I found the full concert on youtube cpl hours ago. I pressed pause to take care of something and the fkn thing disappeared from youtube. Was up for 4 weeks and legit I only made it two songs in. Mtherfker youtube police bitches I hate you!

 

😭😭😭

[rumandraisin]

Had CD come out in 2001 as intended things would have been very different. Obviously based on what we now know it would've had a different tracklist. No Scraped, Better or Shacklers. Instead we would have had Atlas and Silkworms and Perhaps I'm guessing. 

 

They probay would've done actual music videos and promoted it. Worked on stuff like Better and Ne and My Elvis over the next year and put out Cd2 in 2002 with more touring. Then bucket would have stayed, probably an other album in 2004 etc. Wonder where we'd be now in 2021. Réunion would have happened still I think. 

[ChineseDemocracy2004]

Axl looked genuinely taken aback before Patience.

Glad to finally see the footage before it was taken down again. 

[Sydney Fan]

On 1/3/2021 at 8:11 AM, uzi your illusion said:

This was the official start of me waiting for Axl to takeover the world again. And there were certainly glimpses of when I thought it could be a reality. This show, Rio '01, MSG '02, CD release in '08, 2006/2007/2010 tours, But it really wasnt until probably the end of 2010 when it dawned on me that even though I wanted to see him as the top rock star in the world, he never really gave a shit about whether or not the rest of the world saw him that way. He was just trying to get his music out there and juggle expectations that the bands legacy required as well as whatever he had going on personally through the years. And that will just have to be enough for you as a fan or else you will be severely disappointed.

Do you guys think there was a time [post 2000] where Axl really cared about being in the biggest band in the world again? 

I think axl was nervous and sensitive to the critisism of the new lineup. Probably having the band members under the GNR name.

I think if this was done under a solo name, he would never had the doubts and would pushed himself 100%. I think the press would have been more positive. I think just having the band under the GNR name was like an albatross around his neck.

To answer your last paragraph that was in 06.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Sydney Fan

[mystery]

6 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

I think axl was nervous and sensitive to the critisism of the new lineup. Probably having the band members under the GNR name.

I think if this was done under a solo name, he would never had the doubts and would pushed himself 100%. I think the press would have been more positive. I think just having the band under the GNR name was like an albatross around his neck.

To answer your last paragraph that was in 06.

Your first part I agree with. I feel this was the case until 2016 when Duff and  Slash came back. There was a portion of the press and public that were relentless in not accepting the new GnR. Axl seemed to like and support whoever was in the new band. Most of those guys past and present have nothing but good things to say about Axl.

I just don't think Axl ever fully embraced Nu Guns or ran with it as its own entity. After CD was released the new band seemed to exist to tour and make money. Not unlike the current band honestly.

Axl himself however for personal and business reasons kept the Guns name. He believed that the name originated with him before the other members formed the AFD lineup.

I think things fell apart with the public (and the label itself) wanting the old members back or at the very least Slash.

Apparently the album was rejected at least twice by the label. That must have been crushing for Axl. It's kind of a point of no return. Usually albums never release when this occurs.

See MF Doom who recently passed and his album with his group KMD; Black Bastards. It really jaded him in regards to major labels as I'm sure it did for Axl.

If the Best Buy and Dr. Pepper deals didn't come along Chinese Democracy would probably still be unreleased.

Edited January 4, 2021 by mystery

[Sydney Fan]

1 hour ago, mystery said:

Your first part I agree with. I feel this was the case until 2016 when Duff and  Slash came back. There was a portion of the press and public that were relentless in not accepting the new GnR. Axl seemed to like and support whoever was in the new band. Most of those guys past and present have nothing but good things to say about Axl.

I just don't think Axl ever fully embraced Nu Guns or ran with it as its own entity. After CD was released the new band seemed to exist to tour and make money. Not unlike the current band honestly.

Axl himself however for personal and business reasons kept the Guns name. He believed that the name originated with him before the other members formed the AFD lineup.

I think things fell apart with the public (and the label itself) wanting the old members back or at the very least Slash.

Apparently the album was rejected at least twice by the label. That must have been crushing for Axl. It's kind of a point of no return. Usually albums never release when this occurs.

See MF Doom who recently passed and his album with his group KMD; Black Bastards. It really jaded him in regards to major labels as I'm sure it did for Axl.

If the Best Buy and Dr. Pepper deals didn't come along Chinese Democracy would probably still be unreleased.

Agree with alot of your points.

Its difficult to know i suppose who is to blame either axl for holding firm and keeping the GNR name anda releasing CD as GNR, or the record company not accepting CD as it was when axl handed the finished album in 99. My personal opinion, the 99 recordings are better than what was released in 08.

I personally think if CD was released, as what was originally recorded, and under a solo name,it would have been big. Catcher and TWAT could have been single number 2 and 3. Chinese , could maybe been the first single, and used to gauge the public/radio response, but i think Catcher and TWAT would have gotten alot of airplay.

Im basing the above comments on the song versions leaked last year.

Your right, by keeping it under the GNR name there would always be comparisons to the old band, and was probably destined to fail and the band never taken seriously by the press. Especially when the album came out 8 years later. Just to late.

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Sydney Fan

[Sydney Fan]

18 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Had CD come out in 2001 as intended things would have been very different. Obviously based on what we now know it would've had a different tracklist. No Scraped, Better or Shacklers. Instead we would have had Atlas and Silkworms and Perhaps I'm guessing. 

 

They probay would've done actual music videos and promoted it. Worked on stuff like Better and Ne and My Elvis over the next year and put out Cd2 in 2002 with more touring. Then bucket would have stayed, probably an other album in 2004 etc. Wonder where we'd be now in 2021. Réunion would have happened still I think. 

I think we would have eventually gotten the 2011 to 14 era axl and the reunion would have eventuated. For CD fans they may have gotten a few albums before the reunion.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Sydney Fan

[mystery]

1 hour ago, Sydney Fan said:

Agree with alot of your points.

Its difficult to know i suppose who is to blame either axl for holding firm and keeping the GNR name anda releasing CD as GNR, or the record company not accepting CD as it was when axl handed the finished album in 99. My personal opinion, the 99 recordings are better than what was released in 08.

I personally think if CD was released, as what was originally recorded, and under a solo name,it would have been big. Catcher and TWAT could have been single number 2 and 3. Chinese , could maybe been the first single, and used to gauge the public/radio response, but i think Catcher and TWAT would have gotten alot of airplay.

Im basing the above comments on the song versions leaked last year.

Your right, by keeping it under the GNR name there would always be comparisons to the old band, and was probably destined to fail and the band never taken seriously by the press. Especially when the album came out 8 years later. Just to late.

 

I think any time from 99-06 would've been good for releasing CD. The ideal period would've been 00-03. The public were starved for a big rock band like GnR. OMG was a good test for public reception. Catcher would've been a good 2nd single for this purpose in 2000. Release it as a one off but still include it on CD.

It wouldn't be universally loved but it could have easily gone multi-plat; they could have gained a new audience with an album people could actually listen to. It was a big thing in those days just to get boots of this stuff. Just huge opportunities blown to capitalize on the 02 and 06 tours.

They could have gone on creating without so much of the pressure of CD and put together a really nice post 2000 catalog.Instead this band has seemed to be on a 20 year on and off tour with the same set of songs.

Axl is not blameless here. He seemed to have a real reluctance to create and release anything in a timely manner post 94. He was the leader and barely contributed much of anything.

To have a band endlessly work on music without putting on the finishing touches as a singer seems completely backwards to me.

Somehow I don't think his creative process has changed much since.The man is a really interesting singer and lyricist but I'm not expecting a new album any time soon.

[Sweersa]

On 1/3/2021 at 5:57 AM, rumandraisin said:

Had CD come out in 2001 as intended things would have been very different. Obviously based on what we now know it would've had a different tracklist. No Scraped, Better or Shacklers. Instead we would have had Atlas and Silkworms and Perhaps I'm guessing. 

 

They probay would've done actual music videos and promoted it. Worked on stuff like Better and Ne and My Elvis over the next year and put out Cd2 in 2002 with more touring. Then bucket would have stayed, probably an other album in 2004 etc. Wonder where we'd be now in 2021. Réunion would have happened still I think. 

3 albums by that lineup by 2004 would have resulted in multiple ear orgasms. 

[Sydney Fan]

On 1/4/2021 at 6:00 PM, mystery said:

I think any time from 99-06 would've been good for releasing CD. The ideal period would've been 00-03. The public were starved for a big rock band like GnR. OMG was a good test for public reception. Catcher would've been a good 2nd single for this purpose in 2000. Release it as a one off but still include it on CD.

It wouldn't be universally loved but it could have easily gone multi-plat; they could have gained a new audience with an album people could actually listen to. It was a big thing in those days just to get boots of this stuff. Just huge opportunities blown to capitalize on the 02 and 06 tours.

They could have gone on creating without so much of the pressure of CD and put together a really nice post 2000 catalog.Instead this band has seemed to be on a 20 year on and off tour with the same set of songs.

Axl is not blameless here. He seemed to have a real reluctance to create and release anything in a timely manner post 94. He was the leader and barely contributed much of anything.

To have a band endlessly work on music without putting on the finishing touches as a singer seems completely backwards to me.

Somehow I don't think his creative process has changed much since.The man is a really interesting singer and lyricist but I'm not expecting a new album any time soon.

Yep i remember an interview in 95, with slash and from his own words in terms of new music,

"I'd love to be on the road right now doing my fifth album or whatever, but the way things are and the way Guns N' Roses has always been - which is that it'll be done when it's done - the most important thing is to do a cool record. And if we have to work that much harder to establish the fan base or whatever, that's going to have to be the way it is. If we were gonna be working on an annual basis - every year: "Here's a record" - and star turning out crap, that would be more disappointing.

Im starting to think this still holds true. Depending where they are with new music. Interview here,

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=16

Edited January 5, 2021 by Sydney Fan

[mystery]

6 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Yep i remember an interview in 95, with slash and from his own words in terms of new music,

"I'd love to be on the road right now doing my fifth album or whatever, but the way things are and the way Guns N' Roses has always been - which is that it'll be done when it's done - the most important thing is to do a cool record. And if we have to work that much harder to establish the fan base or whatever, that's going to have to be the way it is. If we were gonna be working on an annual basis - every year: "Here's a record" - and star turning out crap, that would be more disappointing.

Im starting to think this still holds true. Depending where they are with new music. Interview here,

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=16

Slash seems to be implying that he didn't want the band to rush things. Take their time and not rush an album. You're always going to lose some fans with time between albums so I see his point. Plus the mid 90s were a shift in terms of musical tastes. A lot of bands from that era changed things up a bit.

I think the band (Slash,Duff, Matt,), were as patient as they could be. As creative guys they just couldn't work the way they were. Late night recording sessions with no end in sight.

There was music recorded in 94-96 but Axl was the main hold up. He didn't want to contribute lyrics or vocals while also not liking most of the music. That's fine but there doesn't seem to be a lot of communication from him on exactly the music he wanted.

The band seemed to be strung along in those years and it's hardly surprising that they broke up. They really needed a complete hiatus. Let the guys do their solo stuff. Have Axl deal with his personal issues. A lot of tension could have been eased and they could've come back in 97/98.

[DurhamGirl]

It must have been difficult trying to make music with someone on dope and another in a constant  drunken state, especially when your not flying on anything.

[guitarpatch]

1 hour ago, mystery said:

Slash seems to be implying that he didn't want the band to rush things. Take their time and not rush an album. You're always going to lose some fans with time between albums so I see his point. Plus the mid 90s were a shift in terms of musical tastes. A lot of bands from that era changed things up a bit.

I think the band (Slash,Duff, Matt,), were as patient as they could be. As creative guys they just couldn't work the way they were. Late night recording sessions with no end in sight.

There was music recorded in 94-96 but Axl was the main hold up. He didn't want to contribute lyrics or vocals while also not liking most of the music. That's fine but there doesn't seem to be a lot of communication from him on exactly the music he wanted.

The band seemed to be strung along in those years and it's hardly surprising that they broke up. They really needed a complete hiatus. Let the guys do their solo stuff. Have Axl deal with his personal issues. A lot of tension could have been eased and they could've come back in 97/98.

Maybe. An issue thats gets overlooked is that they pretty much emptied the vault for the Illusions. For the most part, their songs could take years to complete going to back before Appetite 

Sure Izzy was a major cog that was missing, but I’m not sure if that would have sped things up either. They probably needed to hold back some of the material. Songs such as Breakdown, Locomotive etc... could have used some more time in the oven and provided a starting point for the next record. Starting from scratch could have been daunting for a band that had previously relied on something left in the cupboard 

Instead they released most of what they had. Partly to capitalize on their success. Perhaps they thought they were on the edge and didn’t know if certain members were going to be around the next time around. Whether they quit or something worse 

[WAR41]

As I've mentioned multiple times on this site before, one of my life regrets is not going to this show.  It is certainly my biggest GNR regret.  I was 20 years old and in college and worried about money.... my brother was on the fence about it.  Had he been all in I would have gone no doubt. But then I cold feet about going by myself.  Still kills me.  But I'm thrilled that we have this video and was thrilled when we got the audio that summer of 2001.  

[mystery]

3 hours ago, guitarpatch said:

Maybe. An issue thats gets overlooked is that they pretty much emptied the vault for the Illusions. For the most part, their songs could take years to complete going to back before Appetite 

Sure Izzy was a major cog that was missing, but I’m not sure if that would have sped things up either. They probably needed to hold back some of the material. Songs such as Breakdown, Locomotive etc... could have used some more time in the oven and provided a starting point for the next record. Starting from scratch could have been daunting for a band that had previously relied on something left in the cupboard 

Instead they released most of what they had. Partly to capitalize on their success. Perhaps they thought they were on the edge and didn’t know if certain members were going to be around the next time around. Whether they quit or something worse 

I agree with this. It gets glossed over but even those albums were a difficult process. Some songs are basically solo driven. It's why I have an appreciation for them. Its Guns' White Album.

Izzy saw early where things were heading and left early. Saving some of those tracks would have been a good idea. It seemed like they emptied their vault so to speak.

I've kind of derailed things a bit but a lot of these issues continued to the CD band. Guys like Josh Freese, Buckethead, Robin Finck etc. came in to try and set a new direction.

Axl sold them on a new vision and I think most of them wouldn't have joined if they weren't convinced and thought they could contribute.

[guitarpatch]

32 minutes ago, mystery said:

I agree with this. It gets glossed over but even those albums were a difficult process. Some songs are basically solo driven. It's why I have an appreciation for them. Its Guns' White Album.

Izzy saw early where things were heading and left early. Saving some of those tracks would have been a good idea. It seemed like they emptied their vault so to speak.

I've kind of derailed things a bit but a lot of these issues continued to the CD band. Guys like Josh Freese, Buckethead, Robin Finck etc. came in to try and set a new direction.

Axl sold them on a new vision and I think most of them wouldn't have joined if they weren't convinced and thought they could contribute.

It’s relevant though. Would Axl have felt the need to reinvent with the CD era if there was something else left from previous years that was unfinished? 
 

Starting from scratch led to multiple ideas of what it should be. Ultimately that seems like it was a major issue between them

The label and management probably wanted to squeeze the most possible out of them. They weren’t thinking about 5 years, careers or their well being. Not with the condition Slash Duff and even Axl were in. Not with Steven gone and Izzy one foot out of the door.

Everyone was cashing in on them  

Edited January 5, 2021 by guitarpatch