Was Izzy really asking for a lot of money to come back?

[timkerr37]

32 minutes ago, jamillos said:

What are you talking about, man. Izzy wrote a huge portion of the songs, and the "loot" was about what they'd get from the reunion shows (where most of the stuff played was the old era material, not CD). 

Slash and Duff also left, remember? 

Anyway, 99% of times someone tells me I don't understand something, it's that very person who's actually the one not understanding something... 

Slash and Duff did leave. BUT they didnt sell their share in the GNR business.  Izzy did.  Izzy took his share of the loot when he resigned as a member of the band AND the business partnership.

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, jamillos said:

What are you talking about, man. Izzy wrote a huge portion of the songs, and the "loot" was about what they'd get from the reunion shows (where most of the stuff played was the old era material, not CD). 

Slash and Duff also left, remember? 

Anyway, 99% of times someone tells me I don't understand something, it's that very person who's actually the one not understanding something... 

It was a some kind of monster joke🤦‍♂️

Also, when Slash/Duff left they kept their business position... Izzy didn't (probably being bought out). As for his writing credits, I didn't mention in that comment because I said it a few comments earlier but of course he had a huge role and if that was the only measurement for what you get paid then yeah he deserved money... But it isn't.

Had Izzy kept somewhat of a presence he would have had a bargaining position, but he effectively went underground and did nothing beyond self releases with zero promotion. I wish he was there and especially wish he would be there for any writing.

In an ideal world they all would've agreed to split everything down the middle, but no that just isn't how 99.9% of bands operate. Izzy is rich off his royalties, he doesn't need to tour any way, so he has that fuck you money to say "nah you guys suck, I'll stay home".

[allwaystired]

If Izzy had been there, I'm sure he wouldn't be now. 

[Sweersa]

I wonder what became of Down By The Ocean, and if we will ever hear it. I seem to recall L!VE FREE hearing/having it, but I could be wrong.

[jamillos]

1 hour ago, timkerr37 said:

Slash and Duff did leave. BUT they didnt sell their share in the GNR business.  Izzy did.  Izzy took his share of the loot when he resigned as a member of the band AND the business partnership.

 

21 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

It was a some kind of monster joke🤦‍♂️

Also, when Slash/Duff left they kept their business position... Izzy didn't (probably being bought out). As for his writing credits, I didn't mention in that comment because I said it a few comments earlier but of course he had a huge role and if that was the only measurement for what you get paid then yeah he deserved money... But it isn't.

Had Izzy kept somewhat of a presence he would have had a bargaining position, but he effectively went underground and did nothing beyond self releases with zero promotion. I wish he was there and especially wish he would be there for any writing.

In an ideal world they all would've agreed to split everything down the middle, but no that just isn't how 99.9% of bands operate. Izzy is rich off his royalties, he doesn't need to tour any way, so he has that fuck you money to say "nah you guys suck, I'll stay home".

All good, still changes nothing about the fact they should have split the loot equally. Plus Izzy would have done just a few shows anyway. Same as Adler.

[jacdaniel]

To be honest, I think original negotiations were probably more around Coachella and maybe a short run of shows. Izzy was probably in if they paid him equally. 

But the other guys probably had some idea they'd tour for a long time and knew Izzy wouldn't suit. 

 

And I think we can all agree that Izzy wouldn't do 7 years of constant touring and 3 hour shows.

[guitarpatch]

They could have gotten Izzy on board for a run of shows and paid him

I think they also know that it was chip that didn’t need to be cashed yet. They could go out with the 3 of them and the $ would be the same

An AFD 5 reunion or w Matt/Gilby etc.. is something they can still cash in on. That way you can go for the big payday twice 

The partnership rumors and such is something else entirely. Izzy left and got bought out 30 yrs ago. You can’t expect to get reinstated unless you at least buy back in at the current value. Does he want just a cut? Does he want voting power? 

Edited December 29, 2022 by guitarpatch

[Sweersa]

26 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

An AFD 5 reunion or w Matt/Gilby etc.. is something they can still cash in on. 

It would be a good decision for the money, but I'd feel like the band would fall deeper into the nostalgic pit. I'm a CD-era fan so I'd prefer a Buckethead, Brain, and Robin return  

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, jamillos said:

 

All good, still changes nothing about the fact they should have split the loot equally. Plus Izzy would have done just a few shows anyway. Same as Adler.

But why? If you owned a business with your friend, and then they left and were bought out... Then years later after they got tired vacationing and living off their windfall they come back say I want back in and I want equal money, are you going to say cool even though you held everything together for however many years they were away AND you bought them out of the business.

If Izzy came back to the table and said he want to buy back into the partnership and rejoin the touring etc. then IF he was allowed to do so, he should get equal shares. The 3 guys assume all the risk as the partners, if Izzy was willing to.shpulder that and committ to as many dates as they commit to them he deserves equal loot.

That sounds like I'm shitting on him, but I'm not. He made a bad business decision and 30yrs later there's money to be made and he wants a 2nd serving. He should have stopped being in the band but remained a partner, whoever advised him gave him bad advice. 

[DoMw94]

59 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

An AFD 5 reunion or w Matt/Gilby etc.. is something they can still cash in on.

No chance. Axl+Slash is the real money maker, everyone in the organization will know that, and since they're back together, that ship has sailed. Briging back two guys that a casual/mainstream audience wouldn't have a clue about would do nothing major in terms of ticket sales.

It's not like Slash can leave for another 20-odd years and return either. The only realistic chance of a massive windfall has already happened

Edited December 29, 2022 by DoMw94

[guitarpatch]

35 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

It would be a good decision for the money, but I'd feel like the band would fall deeper into the nostalgic pit. I'm a CD-era fan so I'd prefer a Buckethead, Brain, and Robin return  

Obviously, but that’s kind of where they’re at now anyways. Even if they end up releasing an album 

I think Bucket ship has unfortunately sailed. Is he even touring? I know he’s had some health issues and was selling gear 

[themadcaplaughs]

21 hours ago, ChrisMaciel said:

If i'm not wrong, it was published while ago that Izzy made a deal with Merck about receiving money for showing in some shows of 2006 tour without Axl knowking it.

It was one of those Del James interview Axl gave around the time Chinese Democracy was released:

 

Would you consider a reunion with the 'Appetite' or 'Illusions' lineups?
No.

Why not?
A lot more reasons than I'll get into here now. Different reasons for each version and each individual. The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds.

He called, asked to come out and negotiated a deal with management that it's probably best that none of us knew about or the fun would've seemed a bit more like being used or taken advantage of spoiling the moment. As it was, we had a great time.

It'd be highly doubtful for us to have more than one of the alumni up with us at any given time. I suppose Duff could play guitar on something somewhere, but there's zero possibility of me having anything to do with Slash other than by ambush, and that wouldn't be pretty. He wrote that whole bit about not having his guitar in Vegas, I'd assume, to save face. I was told by both the Hard Rock and different Guns industry people who had come out to be supportive of the new band and were a bit surprised to see him there, especially guitar in hand, but just assumed it was a surprise for the show and we were in on the arrangement.

Steven [Adler] brings assorted ambulance-chasing attorneys and the nightmare of his mother. One gig, or even a couple songs, could mean years of behind-the-scenes legal aftermath.

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, guitarpatch said:

I think Bucket ship has unfortunately sailed. Is he even touring? I know he’s had some health issues and was selling gear 

That is unfortunate. I thought his health was improving, but that was some time ago. I hope he's alright. I thought he and Melissa and Brain were doing things again.

[Karice]

This is off the top of my head, and rag and drag me if you want, but doesn't Izzy have any close Family like a Son or Nephew who can fill his position for him in Current Guns N'Roses like Jason Bonham, John Bonham's son did for AC/DC?  🤔

Edited December 29, 2022 by Karice

[DoMw94]

22 hours ago, Karice said:

This is off the top of my head, and rag and drag me if you want, but doesn't Izzy have any close Family like a Son or Nephew who can fill his position for him in Current Guns N'Roses like Jason Bonham, John Bonham's son did for AC/DC?  🤔

There's a guy called Richard with a somewhat similar haircut if that helps?

Edited December 30, 2022 by DoMw94

[Its Tino]

Well I’m an Izzy fan and appreciate all of his songwriting contributions. 
 

However, with or without him this reunion was going to be an overwhelming success.  

 

 

[Stress Fracture]

I understand why Izzy thought he should be paid equally and the other three thought otherwise. They made him an offer and he refused.

I suppose you could argue that the moment they decided Izzy wasn’t worth the money was also the moment they decided we weren’t ever getting new music.

[Karice]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:19 PM, DoMw94 said:

There's a guy called Richard with a somewhat similar haircut if the helps?

LMAO! 🤣 Get out of here! 🤣

[BangoSkank]

It's probably a combination of things. Izzy not happy with the money, Axl & Co. not comfortable with relying on him, etc. 

[Free Bird]

Considering that Axl already thought years ago that only him, Slash and Duff were able to make a world tour, I think they offered Izzy just some guest spots. You can't get the same amount of money for that. 

But the truth is, these are pure speculation and I believe all the rumors are bullshit.

[DK6]

11 hours ago, themadcaplaughs said:

It was one of those Del James interview Axl gave around the time Chinese Democracy was released:

 

Would you consider a reunion with the 'Appetite' or 'Illusions' lineups?
No.

Why not?
A lot more reasons than I'll get into here now. Different reasons for each version and each individual. The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds.

He called, asked to come out and negotiated a deal with management that it's probably best that none of us knew about or the fun would've seemed a bit more like being used or taken advantage of spoiling the moment. As it was, we had a great time.

It'd be highly doubtful for us to have more than one of the alumni up with us at any given time. I suppose Duff could play guitar on something somewhere, but there's zero possibility of me having anything to do with Slash other than by ambush, and that wouldn't be pretty. He wrote that whole bit about not having his guitar in Vegas, I'd assume, to save face. I was told by both the Hard Rock and different Guns industry people who had come out to be supportive of the new band and were a bit surprised to see him there, especially guitar in hand, but just assumed it was a surprise for the show and we were in on the arrangement.

Steven [Adler] brings assorted ambulance-chasing attorneys and the nightmare of his mother. One gig, or even a couple songs, could mean years of behind-the-scenes legal aftermath.

Is there seriously any possibility that slash would just show up with his guitar??

Always found that hilarious.

[Gunner Gilby]

9 hours ago, Karice said:

This is off the top of my head, and rag and drag me if you want, but doesn't Izzy have any close Family like a Son or Nephew who can fill his position for him in Current Guns N'Roses like Jason Bonham, John Bonham's son did for AC/DC?  🤔

They only extended an offer to Izzy cos he was an original member. But they've got Richard. Or if they needed someone to fill in there's Gilby. Completely different scenario to Ac/DC.

9 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

There's a guy called Richard with a somewhat similar haircut if the helps?

Didn't you know Izzy, Gilby and Richard are triplets 🤣?

[GnR Chris]

On 12/28/2022 at 3:23 PM, Tom-Ass said:

I would trade 2 years with Izzy and a possible implosion after he left over what we got/have.  The band has continuously gotten worse and more boring each passing year since the first 2 years of the reunion. 

This is, sadly, a solid point. Hell, I’d trade just 2016 with Izzy over what we got. And I’m saying this as someone who attended many NITL shows.

I wish Izzy would have at least done Coachella. Realistically, even if money was equal, I don’t think Izzy would have stuck around for nearly six years of a world tour. It’s never been his thing. 

[GnR Chris]

5 hours ago, DK6 said:

Is there seriously any possibility that slash would just show up with his guitar??

Always found that hilarious.

For as much shit as people have given Axl throughout the years, his side of the story almost always ended up being the truth. Or at least closer to it. A lot of the stuff Duff and Slash said after leaving GNR was PR spin (like being forced to sign over the name of the band).

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, GnR Chris said:

For as much shit as people have given Axl throughout the years, his side of the story almost always ended up being the truth. Or at least closer to it. A lot of the stuff Duff and Slash said after leaving GNR was PR spin (like being forced to sign over the name of the band).

Nah, Axl's stories were "his" truth without a doubt but he never was really objective imo.