Was Izzy really asking for a lot of money to come back?

[janrichmond]

17 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I think that's a pretty baseless assumption that's been unfairly purported over the years and has snowballed ever since Izzy left GNR due to prioritizing his health by quitting drugs and not putting up with the bullshit at that time. Sprinkle in a few vague remarks by Duff or whoever and tada there's this mantra of "Izzy simply doesn't care that much about the band he founded and wrote a bunch of the songs for. He probably wouldn't tour even if he was paid enough...I mean, he does like to quadbike afterall..." 

Nah. Izzy has never committed to a long tour since leaving the band. 

[jacdaniel]

3 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

For as much shit as people have given Axl throughout the years, his side of the story almost always ended up being the truth. Or at least closer to it. A lot of the stuff Duff and Slash said after leaving GNR was PR spin (like being forced to sign over the name of the band).

They've all pretty much said that Axl is a dictator and we can see that to this day. 

[Trin9498]

I always believed Izzy left because Axl was becoming more of a diva each day and unlike Slash and Duff, Izzy didn’t want to use drugs and alcohol to cope with Axls behavior anymore. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Trin9498

[SoulMonster]

39 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Maybe his mother was sick? Maybe he didn't feel like it unless it was GNR? There are a million possible reasons for why Izzy hasn't done long tours since leaving GNR.

I'm not saying it's completely impossible Izzy doesn't like long tours. I'm saying, surely, that's not the one and only possibility.

A lot of the impression that Izzy cannot be trusted to tour extensively anymore comes from how badly it ended with the Juju Hounds back in 1992-1995.

Here are a few quotes to give you an indication:

In 2005, Jimmy Ashhurst (the bass player) would look back at their touring in 1992 and having to cancel shows because Izzy refused to take medicine for his topical fever: "I think I remember having had to cut our Australian trip short for some reason...I think [Izzy] had caught some kind of tropical fever, and he refuses to take any kind of prescription medicine so it just got worse and worse until we were forced to cancel a bunch of shows. I remember that sort of being an indication of things to come. When we first started the band I remember talking with him about how shitty it was for GnR to have cancelled so many of their shows, and how hard that must have been on the fans. We discussed how we would never do that if it could be avoided, and so when we started to I sort of started to have some bad feelings, I saw it as sort of a bad omen."

Shows were also cancelled in 1993 because allegedly Izzy had a bad throat. Ashhurst didn't seem to think that was the reason: "A bad throat? Is that what is was? haha..."

In 1995, Izzy seemed to have just abandoned the band. Slash: "Izzy, obviously, is doing doughnuts in Indiana somewhere. His own band doesn't even know where he is. Dizzy: "I mean... about the Ju Ju Hounds... I have a friend who was the guitarist for that band back in the early 90s and he was always complaining about how Izzy would just not show up for show [paraphrased]".

Ashhurst was really bitter about how it ended:

"I went through a really tough period that quite realistically almost killed me. I was seriously involved in drugs, specifically heroin, and that whole lifestyle and was ready to let it all go for awhile. I had lost the band I loved more than anything due to reasons beyond my control and beyond my comprehension really. I couldn't figure out what Izzy's reasons for bailing out were, and whether or not I could have done anything different to have prevented it. We had had so many conversations about whether or not the Ju Ju Hounds were really a band, as opposed to just a solo project, and he had reassured me time after time that it indeed was, and that we were gonna grow old playing together and putting out records in our own time and at our own pace. For me looking to put together a band is the most painful process in music. It just gets more and more difficult as time passes, and I was so happy to know that I would never have to do that again. There are only a handful of players on the planet who seem to understand this kind of music...I mean really understand it and who can play it...and just about all of 'em are involved in great bands already. What we had was the perfect combination of players and leverage in the business. Izzy already had a reputation and a great dedicated fanbase...its not like we had to start from scratch, y'know? I still have a hard time understanding how he could have just thrown it into the toilet and let his friends down like that."

"It took me over ten years to even consider joining another band. I think the main difference is that if something were to happen with the band I'm in now - if someone were to not want to continue - that person have enough respect for the other band members to sit us all down and to explain to all of us the reasons WHY they didn't want to continue. They would do it at an appropriate time, if they could, and they would try their best to make sure they gave enough notice so that the other guys would have time to make other arrangements to take care of their families . They wouldn't do it right IN THE MIDDLE of recording an album in a foreign country, with a top name producer and band members waiting... and they absolutely wouldn't simply walk out the door one day to never come back with no explanation whatsoever. It just a human thing, respect. It doesn't matter who you are or how famous and/or rich you become. There's a proper way to go about working with others, especially people you've spent so much time with and with whom you've had so many wonderful experiences. The guys I'm working with now would give me or anyone else in the band that respect, no matter what. It took almost ten years for me to get over that experience, and it almost killed me in the process. I can finally look at things a little more objectively than I could for sooo long. I knew going into the relationship that he was a little unpredictable, I guess I was just a little naive in thinking that he would never have done that to me. I would have taken a bullet for that guy and for anyone in that band. ANYTHING that was bothering him could have been easily resolved with a conversation, and even if it couldn't have - at least we deserved to be told what was going to happen. Theres a human way of doing things...and then apparently there's Izzy's way of doing things...and that's just, unfortunate."

Ashhurst even proposed to do a tour where he would pay his own costs (likely hinting at what he thought would be important to Izzy):

"[...] from my perspective I find that (The Ju Ju Hounds) as having been a great experience and I find it hard to understand why you wouldn’t want to do 5 or 10 cities in the world to make a lot of people happy It’s not that difficult and if you don’t want to do press, then, don’t do press! He could pretty much make it under his own terms. So, for a guy like me who enjoys touring – I find it difficult to understand. [...] I haven’t heard from Izzy, which is to be expected – I barely heard from him when we were together! (laughs). He’s a private guy. After touring as long as I have, I understand his position all these years ago clearly. But that’s our fundamental difference of opinion. Why wouldn’t you want to go out there and make a lot of people happy? That’s what this (music) is all about. [...] I actually tried to get a message to him. I said ‘If you do it, I’ll pay my own way. It’s not going to cost you a dime.’ I’ll reiterate that now. If he wanted to do it, it wouldn’t cost him. I certainly wouldn’t take any money for doing it. It would be fantastic."

Then Izzy was supposed to play with The New York Dolls but backed out when it turned into a longer tour than expected.

Then you also have quotes from Axl and Duff that indicates that it is really challenging to depend on Izzy since he prefers to come and go as he likes. 

All in all, I think it is natural to assume that Izzy would likely not be interested in extensive touring. He obviously was interested in doing some shows with the reunited band, like he did in 2006, but apparently asked for more money than they were willing to give.

All quotes with sources can be found here: (19) 13. JULY-NOVEMBER 1991: USE YOUR ILLUSIONS ARE OUT, SO IS IZZY - Page 2 (a-4-d.com)

[Coma16]

Izzy must be some sort of yahoo for not wanting to take big pharma meds.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lethalis]

On 12/28/2022 at 8:33 PM, Spaghetti4twenty said:

If Izzy was there they’d probably still have 4tus as a third guitarist (just a guess) so I’d imagine that’s why. 

Probably... Izzy can't play the Chinese stuff I guess.

And he's a songwriter... he will get bored to death with the current situation

Wish they would get Izzy on board for his songwriting though. Get some old fashioned rock n roll back in this band.

But as @SoulMonstermentions, Izzy also seems very unreliable as a touring member.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Lethalis

[Blackstar]

Maybe Izzy didn't want to deal with the logistics of solo tours (dealing with promoters etc.) and also didn't think that a tour would turn a profit, so it wouldn't be worth it. But he'd probably do a small tour with GN'R if his requirements were satisfied.

[Spaghetti4twenty]

2 hours ago, Lethalis said:

Probably... Izzy can't play the Chinese stuff I guess.

And he's a songwriter... he will get bored to death with the current situation

Wish they would get Izzy on board for his songwriting though. Get some old fashioned rock n roll back in this band.

But as @SoulMonstermentions, Izzy also seems very unreliable as a touring member.

I think it would be cool if they had Izzy and Steven to record and write but toured with 4tus and Frank. 
 

then again, Axl recorded three different drummers and replaced Brian Mays parts for CD just to correspond to the current lineup. He seems very loyal to his hired members which I respect 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Spaghetti4twenty

[Ratam]

Accord Jimmy Ashhurt, Izzy catch the Axl "Syndrome "... 

[DoMw94]

4 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

The fact that there's fans out there who prefer a random hired musician to fill in for Izzy, GNR founding member and key songwriter - is simply a very stupid opinion/preference, enough so that I feel anyone who feels that way should be good enough to not try and defend it.

Well here I am, trying to defend it...

Sorry, you can't give your point of view then say anyone who believes differently is stupid 'just because'.

Personally, while I like Izzy, I also like Richard. Hired hand or not, I like what he brings to the band, I like how he's gelled with Slash and Duff, and I like how we get to hear more of him now there's only two guitarists. I'm a big fan of the current lineup that blends both the classic and CD eras. It's cool to see how the band has still managed to evolve over the decades in spite of little material actually being released.

Do I like Izzy? Yes. Was he a key songwriter? Yes, but the songs are written already, it's pretty clear AFD 2.0 is never coming, regardless of who's in the band, so a performer is what's necessary.

But is Richard a worthy replacement? Yes. Is it good that, in a band dogged with turmoil since day one, they have someone who's both talented AND doesn't rock the boat? Yes.

Has anything I've said been categorically wrong? No, because that's how I see it. I'm not wrong, or indeed "stupid", and neither are you.

The fact of the matter is, none of us truly know what's going on. No matter what side of the fence you sit on, we're all just speculating. But there's one thing we can all be pretty certain of: if Izzy being in the band was a better idea than Richard, at this point in time, he'd be there – and he isn't.

[ChristmasFnatic]

Is Izzy still friends with the other 3 though? Anyone knows?

[Politania]

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Maybe Izzy didn't want to deal with the logistics of solo tours (dealing with promoters etc.) and also didn't think that a tour would turn a profit, so it wouldn't be worth it. But he'd probably do a small tour with GN'R if his requirements were satisfied.

It seemed to me that Izzy would be willing to do a little tour, a few shows, and not to coming back to GNR.  The band  now is a  a giant machine, a company with bigger social media then 30 years ago. this guy for the last 30 years did what he wanted to do. He was a ship and a sailor himself. so I don't see him returning permanently to t band, where you have to reckon with a revolution in almost every area of your life. The image of this guy seems to be as a person who can't be counted on and who is unpredictable ... just like Axl used to be.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Politania

[Ratam]

6 minutes ago, Politania said:

It seemed to me that Izzy would be willing to do a little tour, a few shows, and not to coming back to GNR.  The band  no is a  a giant machine, a company with bigger social media then 30 years ago. this guy for the last 30 years did what he wanted to do. He was a ship and a sailor himself. so I don't see him returning permanently to t band, where you have to reckon with a revolution in almost every area of your life. The image of this guy seems to be as a person who can't be counted on and who is unpredictable ... just like Axl used to be.

Happy Belated Christmas @Politania!

[Politania]

Just now, Ratam said:

Happy Belated Christmas @Politania!

thank you! happy New Year

[jacdaniel]

4 hours ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

Is Izzy still friends with the other 3 though? Anyone knows?

I think Slash and Duff are the only friends from original Guns. 

They are currently on working terms with Axl who has his own entourage. 

There doesn't seem to be any major bad blood with past members but certainly not friends.

Edited December 30, 2022 by jacdaniel

[Frankfurt93]

3 hours ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

Is Izzy still friends with the other 3 though? Anyone knows?

The only ex member we can tell Iz hangs out with is Matt.

Let's be honest the last time GNR were A BAND was 17/7/93., evrything post that (Spaghetti Incident excluded) was just from bad to worse.

Personally, for me Matt and Gilby were more than acceptable replacements for one who could not play anymore (Adler) and the other who left on his own terms (Izzy).

To me, Matt style was even more adequate for GNR sound (YCBM, Coma, Dead Horse, Locomotive, Double Talkin' Jive as best examples), Gilby IMO was not technically worse than Izzy but had more stage presence.

Neither Matt nor Gilby lacked charisma and they seemed to be perfect fit for GNR world, not to mention the chemistry they had with Duff and Slash. That was the band the fans lived with and lived for, waiting for the next video, show...whatever. What we have now is huge setback, Axl can't sing, Fortus/Frank/Mel are laughable replacements for the band that played in the 90's. Obviously, the creative chemistry is not there.

As for Izzy...Coming off the stadium tour, with UYI albums just released, it ain't easy to put together the band and play half empty small clubs. No Slash left, Duff in the middle, Steve/Matt behind.  You can give it a try but if nothing happens, it wears off. Financially, it gets to the point where you lose the money, the members need to be paid, the costs are not reimbursed, it stopps making sense and interest fades away after a while. Therefore don't compare Izzy turning off the switch with Ju Ju's to him quitting Gunners.

Fact is, he almost became a member of my second fav bend who themselves toured big time at the time - The Black Crowes. If he was not into touring he would not consider it, right!?

Finally, the fact we have Frank/Fortus/Mel proves it was all about the money...

[DK6]

4 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

Well here I am, trying to defend it...

Sorry, you can't give your point of view then say anyone who believes differently is stupid 'just because'.

Personally, while I like Izzy, I also like Richard. Hired hand or not, I like what he brings to the band, I like how he's gelled with Slash and Duff, and I like how we get to hear more of him now there's only two guitarists. I'm a big fan of the current lineup that blends both the classic and CD eras. It's cool to see how the band has still managed to evolve over the decades in spite of little material actually being released.

Do I like Izzy? Yes. Was he a key songwriter? Yes, but the songs are written already, it's pretty clear AFD 2.0 is never coming, regardless of who's in the band, so a performer is what's necessary.

But is Richard a worthy replacement? Yes. Is it good that, in a band dogged with turmoil since day one, they have someone who's both talented AND doesn't rock the boat? Yes.

Has anything I've said been categorically wrong? No, because that's how I see it. I'm not wrong, or indeed "stupid", and neither are you.

The fact of the matter is, none of us truly know what's going on. No matter what side of the fence you sit on, we're all just speculating. But there's one thing we can all be pretty certain of: if Izzy being in the band was a better idea than Richard, at this point in time, he'd be there – and he isn't.

Do i like rhetorical questions? Yes.

Do i like answering my own rhetorical questions? Also yes.

 

[BluegrassBlues]

I can understand everybody's point of view in this issue honestly. In Izzy's view he was a co-founder and deserves an equal share of the money with Axl, Duff and Slash. In their point of view Izzy sold his partnership years ago and they have no obligation to split it equally. It sounds cold but that is business. I was really disappointed that Izzy wasn't a part of the reunion, I know when most people think of gnr they think Slash and Axl, which is fine they did make themselves the face of the band, but I always thought Izzy deserved more recognition. Speaking theoretically if Axl hadn't had Izzy to look for when he first came out who even knows if we would have had the band? I don't think we'll ever know the full answer on this, but I've been disappointed in all of them he wasn't a part of it. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by BluegrassBlues

[Spaghetti4twenty]

6 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

I think Slash and Duff are the only friends from original Guns. 

They are currently on working terms with Axl who has his own entourage. 

There doesn't seem to be any major bad blood with past members but certainly not friends.

Makes one realize that Duff is the middle man/glue in Guns N’ Roses. You’ll see Axl and Duff,  and Slash and Duff, but never Axl and Slash together off stage

[willl]

I'm definitely in the "Izzy is the heart and soul of GNR" camp. It's not truly GN'R without Izzy for me just because they're playing his songs year after year.

I've enjoyed reading everyones opinions on this, love a good Izzy thread even if it's not full of fellow Izzy fanboys 

Thanks @SoulMonster for sharing all those interviews too, enjoyed reading those, especially seeing as at least one of them was from my own interview with Jimmy Ashhurst back in 2005, quite the blast from the past 

[BucketEgg]

Duff and Slash seem to be getting along with Team Brazil fine. do you think Izzy would get along with the band's management long term?

[El Guapo]

3 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

Duff and Slash seem to be getting along with Team Brazil fine. do you think Izzy would get along with the band's management long term?

How the hell are we supposed to even guess?

[LunsJail]

Izzy self-sabotaged coming back for the NITL tour. He would have to know he wasn’t getting paid what the others were and used that excuse to not show up. I’m not totally convinced Izzy can really play anymore, let alone pull off a big tour.

As far as being friends, Sorum’s book indicated there was bad blood between Izzy and Duff after the NITL appearances didn’t work out.

[allwaystired]

Remember when Izzy came back before? 

I don't think they sold one extra ticket as a result of it. Ok, it wasn't a pre-announced thing or anything but I don't think many people could have cared less. 

Outside of us lot, I don't think anyone that is still buying GNR tickets is interested in him. 

That's definitely a factor in him being there, from a financial view point. And as everything GNR does now is about money, it's easy to see why him being there wasn't and isn't a priority. 

 

[KURT19]

Bullshit.

Izzy wanted his fair share.  Duff and Slash caved.  Steven is a completely different sad story altogether.

If they announced the return of Izzy and Steven, ticket sales would rocket up.