Kat Benzova sues GNR/Fernando for copyright infringement and sexual harassment

[meadsoap]

25 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

You're really having trouble reading my posts.

I didn't say it impacts the band members.

It impacts the band in terms of hiring new staff. Reputation. People especially women entering the camp now will read of this and that's a negative thing to carry around, ESPECIALLY if Fernando remains and they just sweep this under the rug with money.

I personally think there's only one answer and that's new management. If they sweep it away with hush money and go on like nothing happened then everybody looks bad and then it actually becomes a thing IF journalists decide to make a story out of it.

Will they be cancelled. Nope.

Yeah, that's definitely not how it works lol. If someone refused to work with them over the Kat Benzova lawsuit, there will be a hundred other people lining up to take their place. Hell, Kat herself worked with GnR for 4 more years and would have still been working with them if they hadn't fired her, and she was the one who this happened to. Why? Money.

 

 

Money runs everything. That's how the industry roles, sorry.

Edited November 15, 2023 by meadsoap

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, GNRmello77 said:

We already knew this but it's kinda diva to have your own bus driver as slash duff Axl, and then for the rest band driver. Usually they just go into these mercedes vans from hotel to gig

That's how most big bands operate. In the US they use the buses to travel from city to city. I worked a ZZ Top show once (about 5 or 6 years ago) and Billy, Dusty, and Frank each had their own bus.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Lio said:

I wonder if the sexual stuff was 'new'. Didn't the thing @Blackstar posted about the wrong filing in the Spring only mention the copyright stuff? So they were ready for the copyright stuff, but not the sexual harrassment?

They didn't actually file it in spring, they just started the process, so there wasn't a lawsuit document detailing what was about and we don't know if the sexual harassment allegations would have been in it.

But I suppose there were words,  whispers etc. I wouldn't think that they were caught completely by surprise.

[adamsapple]

5 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Will they be cancelled. Nope.

I would not underestimate the situation. Had her claims been filed before the start of the tour, gigs like Glastonbury might not have happened.

Kat is not some groupie with a camera. Whether people like her style or not, she is a professional photographer who worked for acts bigger than GNR. Haven't heard of her making any claims towards those artists or any of their managers.

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, meadsoap said:

Yeah, that's definitely not how it works lol. If someone refused to work with them over the Kat Benzova lawsuit, there will be a hundred other people lining up to take their place. Hell, Kat herself worked with GnR for 4 more years and would have still been working with them if they hadn't fired her, and she was the one who this happened to. 

 

It looks like you still haven't gotten my point. Money runs everything. Not many people are going to put Kat Benzova over their own checkbook, and the few who will are easily replaced. That's how the industry roles, sorry.

We all understand that money is what moves the needle. And we all know that gnr will have many people happy to work for them no matter what was out there negative or otherwise. But is a woman going to feel comfortable working in that organization? Probably not... Obviously plenty would be and many would just be happy for the opportunity to work with gnr.

No part of that isn't plainly obvious, so I didn't bother saying it before. But, this is just for you👍🏻

[Italian girl]

I'm so scared that this could be the beginning a new end for GNR 

[Tom2112]

5 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

I would not underestimate the situation. Had her claims been filed before the start of the tour, gigs like Glastonbury might not have happened.

Kat is not some groupie with a camera. Whether people like her style or not, she is a professional photographer who worked for acts bigger than GNR. Haven't heard of her making any claims towards those artists or any of their managers.

Look at the photographer Manson spat on, she was probably dismissed by Manson fans but now she has won a case against him. 

Let's see how it all plays out anyway. No doubt NDAs are going to be implemented.

[axl666]

24 minutes ago, Sosso said:

GN'R is a well oiled touring machine. Money talks louder than anything else.

Duff's narrative isn't really feminist, it's more a commitment to hegemonic masculinity. His music focuses on things like how to be a man; rejection of violence against women ('his momma didn't raise a man'); and his identity as a 'girl dad'. With that in mind, I could see Duff getting continually asked to comment about these types of allegations.

 

 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

3 minutes ago, Italian girl said:

I'm so scared that this could be the beginning a new end for GNR 

GNR is a multi million dollar company that intends to make a lot more money in the future. They are not gonna quit because of some creepy dwarf who is absolutely unimportant. Chill out

[Tom2112]

3 minutes ago, Italian girl said:

I'm so scared that this could be the beginning a new end for GNR 

I don't see it, I think the band is bigger than a scandal. I guess TB could go nuclear if their power was threatened. But I don't see it escalating, I think they are calculated enough not to rock the cart off the track

[Sweersa]

2 hours ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

Thank you!

2 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

 

2017 for example. When i get chance ill look through things a bit. I want to see if she is listed as freelance anywhere

Very cool, that's the same font and style as my 2002 book.

[Italian girl]

 

10 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I don't see it, I think the band is bigger than a scandal. I guess TB could go nuclear if their power was threatened. But I don't see it escalating, I think they are calculated enough not to rock the cart off the track

The big mystery for me It Will be axl's reaction to this situation

Edited November 15, 2023 by Italian girl

[Sosso]

3 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Thank you!

Very cool, that's the same font and style as my 2002 book.

Intersting. I would love to see that 2002 Tour book.

[gnr5]

1 minute ago, Italian girl said:

 

The big mystery for me It Will be axl's reaction to this situation

We don't know all the details, anyone can sue anyone over anything. If she has proof of him sexually harrassing her I can see Axl taking her side and separating at least publicly from Fernando, but if Kat's lawsuit is just a reaction to the original claim by GNR then I see Axl supporting fernando and staying

[Sweersa]

10 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Intersting. I would love to see that 2002 Tour book.

I got it on eBay a few years back. Pretty cool to flip through, it has the best lineup, IMO. I'll try to remember to post some photos of it. I'll probably do it as its own thread with the highlights.

I bought it to get Vanessa's phone number, but that didn't really work out.  (Just kidding) 

[LandOla]

1 hour ago, Sweersa said:

I got it on eBay a few years back. Pretty cool to flip through, it has the best lineup, IMO. I'll try to remember to post some photos of it. I'll probably do it as its own thread with the highlights.

I bought it to get Vanessa's phone number, but that didn't really work out.  (Just kidding) 

PERVERT!

[Blackstar]

Axl probably wouldn't get rid of Fernando completely, but I don't think he would have a problem to remove him from management and demote him to a lower position on the side.

The real problem is who would replace him, because I doubt that Axl would want to go back to having a manager from the industry. So it would have to be someone else from inside. Beta has retired from being manager and Vanessa seems to be doing well as Axl's assistant but there's a big difference between that and being the general manager of the band (although it's fair to say that anyone would do a better job than Fernando). They could get either Slash's or Duff's manager to manage the whole band, but it's not going to happen.

[kiwiguns]

I think we need to take a step back and focus on the contents of the legal filling. 

Having read the legal filling, the core issues are copyright infringement under the Copyright Act and the other issue is under the California Fair Employment and Housing Act more specifically workplace sexual harassment.

There are a number of business entities listed along with an individual as defendants. 

The Plaintiff is listed as an independent contractor, who at one point in time operated under a contract for services. 

Under the California Fair Employment and Housing Act an independent contractor is protected under the act if the employeer, employees more than five employees. 

The issues at hand are:

# Who owns the material (the photos) and was the Plaintiff fairly compensated for work completed under the terms of a written contract or by general understanding (verbal agreements). 

# Did the employer provide a safe work environment under the terms of the California Fair Employment and Housing Act. 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by kiwiguns

[Stay.Of.Execution]

22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

 

The real problem is who would replace him, because I doubt that Axl would want to go back to having a manager from the industry. 

Vanessa

Personally I'd prefer Del. He has been in the industry for ages and knows how it works. Plus he's not a douchbag

Edited November 15, 2023 by Stay.Of.Execution

[gnr5]

36 minutes ago, kiwiguns said:

I think we need to take a step back and focus on the contents of the legal filling. 

Having read the legal filling, the core issues are copyright infringement under the Copyright Act and the other issue is under the California Fair Employment and Housing Act more specifically workplace sexual harassment.

There are a number of business entities listed along with an individual as defendants. 

The Plaintiff is listed as an independent contractor, who at one point in time operated under a contract for services. 

Under the California Fair Employment and Housing Act an independent contractor is protected under the act if the employeer, employees more than five employees. 

The issues at hand are:

# Who owns the material (the photos) and was the Plaintiff fairly compensated for work completed under the terms of a written contract or by general understanding (verbal agreements). 

# Did the employer provide a safe work environment under the terms of the California Fair Employment and Housing Act. 

 

The issue was that Kat tried to or successfully copyrighted the photos with the Library of Congress, GNR sued her for that claming they own the rights as per their agreement, hence she cant file for copyright protection. She's saying she owns the copyright because management verbally told her she owns them and promised to give her credit, she also claims that she was legally under contract under very few periods of time, and finally the sexual harassment and poor work condition allegations.

[vloors]

39 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Axl probably wouldn't get rid of Fernando completely, but I don't think he would have a problem to remove him from management and demote him to a lower position on the side.

The real problem is who would replace him, because I doubt that Axl would want to go back to having a manager from the industry. So it would have to be someone else from inside. Beta has retired from being manager and Vanessa seems to be doing well as Axl's assistant but there's a big difference between that and being the general manager of the band (although it's fair to say that anyone would do a better job than Fernando). They could get either Slash's or Duff's manager to manage the whole band, but it's not going to happen.

Axls partly the problem thinking any idiot can pull off managing a big band. He needs to bite the bullet and get professionals on board.

[Rindmelon]

3 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Thank you!

Very cool, that's the same font and style as my 2002 book.

I bet it has the chinese dragon leaning on the world logo on the front? 

[evilfacelessturtle]

13 hours ago, Avillart said:

When we hugged I noticed that her body went kind of "limp", something that happens when people are insecure. Which made me like her (and contradict the picture I had of her from fans) cause it was a genuine reaction. Body language doesn't lie.

"Body language" is a pseudoscience. She could have gone limp from having a sore back for all you know. For it to be a language there would have to be an agreed upon universal code. There is not. People do things for different reasons and you can't read their mind, sorry. Should be called "body assumptions".

What you're really telling us is that you're easily fooled by somebody who can lie confidently while looking you dead in the eyes. Which is most liars, in my experience. Bad people spend their whole lives perfecting their performance of a clean outward image.

[Silence]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:40 AM, SoulMonster said:

Although I tend to go with the "innocent until proven", in cases like this, with so much detail, I find it hard to believe there isn't a burning fire underneath the pillars of smoke. And regardless, the band can't have these accusations over them even if settled outside of court or dismissed, Fernando needs to go regardless. I am like Cesar on this, "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion". Fernando must go.

100% agree with you. However, Fernando might luck out as he is not as associated with managing GNR as he believes in his own mind. He is not Guy Oseary. Furthermore, his mom and sister work for GNR. At most he will receive some kinda of demotion or the two year break will serve to let allow this to blow over. Hiring a very attractive photographer for a profile rock band was probably a shit idea. 

[Silence]

On 11/14/2023 at 3:51 PM, Blackstar said:

This is all very serious (and horrible).

However, all the comments that this maybe be the end of GN'R and that there won't be any more releases or touring etc., are too dramatic and overstated.

It made me ill. Kat seems cool AF. She was also there before the reunion and felt kinda a part of the larger GNR circle. I recall Fernando getting super butt-hurt when the women from Live Nation won an award for the tour. He seems to think keeping Axl grounded is the end-all-be-all. Fernando has done some great things, but he is essentially a handler with a title.