An Open Letter To GN'R, Team Brazil, UMG and Those Who Are Ruining The Community

[cooker]

1 minute ago, Kittiara said:

People were threatened and had their families threatened? That is so, so horrible and wrong!

I hope the people who did this are just making up their connections to GN'R/TB. I really, really do.

I do, however, also agree with @killuridols that there are fans who have been subjected to bullying and abuse, and the Staff at Nightrain, at least, were aware of it. Not only were the abusers not warned, let alone banned... they were allowed to feel special. I have seen them be praised. I don't tend to speak out about this, for fear of being targetted more,  but I was one of the people attacked and bullied, in public as well as in private. I was subjected to racism and sexism. Nothing was done. Unsurprisingly, I am no longer a member there.

That's nothing compared to people being threatened and having their families threatened, of course. I am not trying to make this about me. But it does illustrate that sometimes the people in the GN'R circle, if they're not actually behind it, do condone bad treatment of fans.

curious about the racist angle.. especially with TB having issues with this being done to them in the past. 

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, Legendador said:

How come and unoficial content is legal! So, you create something, but then somebody else take it, sell it and keep the money to themselves. Please define "legal" in unoficial.

These are all unofficial releases which have fallen through copyright loopholes in various countries. They are perfectly legal. Search for them yourself on an European Amazon. This for instance is a 8-disc boxset of various live shows,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welcome-Paradise-City-Box-Set/dp/B073RHM63G/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1533090686&sr=1-6&keywords=guns+n'+roses

They are being sold on Amazon - I repeat - Amazon. 

If you bought that you would be committing no criminal offence. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[ZoSoRose]

8 minutes ago, Kittiara said:

People were threatened and had their families threatened? That is so, so horrible and wrong!

I hope the people who did this are just making up their connections to GN'R/TB. I really, really do.

I do, however, also agree with @killuridols that there are fans who have been subjected to bullying and abuse, and the Staff at Nightrain, at least, were aware of it. Not only were the abusers not warned, let alone banned... they were allowed to feel special. I have seen them be praised. I don't tend to speak out about this, for fear of being targetted more,  but I was one of the people attacked and bullied, in public as well as in private. I was subjected to racism and sexism. Nothing was done. Unsurprisingly, I am no longer a member there.

That's nothing compared to people being threatened and having their families threatened, of course. I am not trying to make this about me. But it does illustrate that sometimes the people in the GN'R circle, if they're not actually behind it, do condone bad treatment of fans.

We posted on there together a few years ago. The mods tbere were worthless. They seemed to make you a mod just to bare the brunt of the abuse. Dispocable behavior on Jarmo and Catcher/GNR Mods (who the eff are those goons?) part 

You are a great poster

[cooker]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

These are all unofficial releases which have fallen through copyright loopholes in various countries. They are perfectly legal. Search for them yourself on an European Amazon. This for instance is a 8-disc boxset of various live shows,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welcome-Paradise-City-Box-Set/dp/B073RHM63G/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1533090686&sr=1-6&keywords=guns+n'+roses

They are being sold on Amazon - I repeat - Amazon. 

If you bought that you would be committing no criminal offence. 

It actually looks like it sells based on the sales ranking. 

[cooker]

1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said:

We posted on there together a few years ago. The mods tbere were worthless. They seemed to make you a mod just to bare the brunt of the abuse. Dispocable behavior on Jarmo and Catcher/GNR Mods (who the eff are those goons?) part 

You are a great poster

Makes you really appreciate the Mods around here. 

[cooker]

2 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Beware of false users and lies tonight, folks. Certain people may try to post here

intrigued. What a bunch of melodramatic douchebags we are as a fandom.  

[ZoSoRose]

Just now, cooker said:

intrigued. What a bunch of melodramatic douchebags we are as a fandom.  

Absolutely

[Kittiara]

4 minutes ago, cooker said:

curious about the racist angle.. especially with TB having issues with this being done to them in the past. 

Aye. I won't go into it further here, as very bad language was used which I don't want to replicate. But that's one thing you'd think any decent forum/site would not, under any circumstances, condone.

 

[Ratam]

This crazy thread and lunatics "fans" look as "mafia" movie..😬GNR drama is infinite...

[cooker]

9 minutes ago, Kittiara said:

Aye. I won't go into it further here, as very bad language was used which I don't want to replicate. But that's one thing you'd think any decent forum/site would not, under any circumstances, condone.

 

fair fair. Just makes me wonder how big a cluster this band's management is behind the scenes. I'd love a Team Brazil documentary. No band interviews, just following the management around while on tour. The next Netflix docuseries. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by cooker

[Kittiara]

12 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

We posted on there together a few years ago. The mods tbere were worthless. They seemed to make you a mod just to bare the brunt of the abuse. Dispocable behavior on Jarmo and Catcher/GNR Mods (who the eff are those goons?) part 

You are a great poster

Aye, I remember you posting there! It was a nightmare, wasn't it?

And thank you. You are a wonderful poster as well.

[ZoSoRose]

Just now, Kittiara said:

Aye, I remember you posting there! It was a nightmare, wasn't it?

And thank you. You are a wonderful poster as well.

It was a circus full of insane people

[marlingrl03]

1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said:

It was a circus full of insane people

Makes me very glad I never stepped foot into there. Damn! 

[Kittiara]

4 minutes ago, cooker said:

fair fair. Just makes me wonder how big a cluster this band's management is behind the scenes. I'd love a TB Brazil documentary. No band interviews, just following the management around while on tour. The next Netflix docuseries. 

Thank you for understanding. And ha, that would sure be interesting. When it comes to the band's circle, my mind is well and truly boggled.

[cooker]

Just now, Kittiara said:

Thank you for understanding. And ha, that would sure be interesting. When it comes to the band's circle, my mind is well and truly boggled.

Once the reformation happened they should have been removed as the Band's management. 

[ZoSoRose]

Just now, cooker said:

Once the reformation happened they should have been removed as the Band's management. 

Absolutely. I do believe that Slash and Duff have their own managers, though, so thats good

[Iron MikeyJ]

As I said in the other thread, 2 of my guns YT videos got taken down, Sympathy for the devil and bring it back home. My question would be WHY those two? I also had music videos for like half of CD, and nothing. I had videos of Civil War, Coma, Right next door to hell, and others... yet nothing. 

Why those particular two? Yes Sympathy was the most popular of mine, but as I said in the other thread, Guns or the record company was making money off of that video that had over 1 million views. I honestly don't even care, they were like 8 year old videos, so whatever. I'm just curious as to why, I suppose.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[Ratam]

7 minutes ago, cooker said:

Once the reformation happened they should have been removed as the Band's management. 

Agreed.

[MaskingApathy]

25 minutes ago, cooker said:

fair fair. Just makes me wonder how big a cluster this band's management is behind the scenes. I'd love a Team Brazil documentary. No band interviews, just following the management around while on tour. The next Netflix docuseries. 

We already have that, it's called Fernando's Instagram story 

[cooker]

1 minute ago, MaskingApathy said:

We already have that, it's called Fernando's Instagram story 

Hahaha 

[GNRfanMILO]

We need answers @Fernando!

We have a lot of information to get the ones responsable in serious trouble.

[troccoli]

2 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Whore Faced Asshole is buddies with MSL, who's blackmailed the band in the past and has (supposedly) benefited from it. I'm sure the people in question aren't above blackmailing the band; a "don't ban me and I wont leak _____" kind of scenario.

I can assure you that they are no longer friends, precisely because of all of this.

1 hour ago, Wagszilla said:

Spare me your sermon @Legendador

If other bands' music is pulled down, it's clearly and definitively done by the record company.

Prince, Michael Jackson, pretty much every other fanbase has mountains of unreleased material in their hands.

And guess what, it's all on YouTube! The horror!

I'm betting most of them have bought every official release at least once...

This crazy fan is:

1. Impersonating GN'R (crime)
2. Participating in the black market economy as a buyer and seller (more serious crime)
3. Threatening people's families (most serious crime)

If you want to go full fascist, be my guest, but don't overlook the most egregious thing that is going on here.

If you think it's fans quietly enjoying things that have been around for decades, you've got some fucked up priorities.

 

 

"Participating in the black market economy as a buy and seller."  We all might want to be careful not to pursue this.  Sure some damage could be done to "Alfred", but also to axlrose4life or whatever his username is. 

[ZoSoRose]

Just now, troccoli said:

I can assure you that they are no longer friends, precisely because of all of this.

"Participating in the black market economy as a buy and seller."  We all might want to be careful not to pursue this.  Sure some damage could be done to "Alfred", but also to axlrose4life or whatever his username is. 

I hope you arent dragged into this, man. You are a great guy and I know you just like getting along with everyone on all sides. Hope all is well!

[WAR41]

3 minutes ago, troccoli said:

I can assure you that they are no longer friends, precisely because of all of this.

"Participating in the black market economy as a buy and seller."  We all might want to be careful not to pursue this.  Sure some damage could be done to "Alfred", but also to axlrose4life or whatever his username is. 

I was actually curious to know how you felt about this Tim.  I believe you’ve unearthed and shared some amazing stuff (not just  merch).  I would think if there is one person who could talk sense into Mofo you could do it.  Alfred is a lost cause. 

[downzy]

So I've locked this thread for a few reasons.  But before we get into it, a little backstory...

@RussTCB sent me a PM this morning giving me the heads up that something like this was coming our way.  Russ is one of the most caring and passionate people I know, both with respect to music and music fans.  It's a testament to who Russ is that he devoted the time and attention to the very serious problems that are plaguing the online GNR community (not limited to this forum) and to two particular members who have had their personal lives threatened or exposed.  Most people, and I'll include myself in that category, would simply shake their heads and carry on with their day.  But Russ has chosen to stand up for what he believes in on behalf of others and the community as a whole. 

So the first reason I locked this thread is that GNR management is aware of this issue and I can only assume is looking to it (emphasis on assume).  I provided the best tl;dr version of what has been happening the last three months to a member of management this evening.  I truly believe that most of this has been flying under their radar as it seemed news to them.  Keep in mind they have been a little busy both with a huge re-release of Appetite and the never ending snake-monster that is the NITL tour.   I maybe way off on this but I just don't think these issues have been conveyed to them in a way that warrants immediate action relative to what else they have on their plates.  I honestly know about as much as you guys on this despite this forum's very loose and tangential connection with GNR management and the band.  If the general public only sees 1 percent of the iceberg, I'm maybe seeing an extra .5 percent from the few brief conversations I have with TB.  So I can only speak from my own opinion and assumptions.  Regardless, we'll open this discussion back up should we receive any clarification (or if any is given on any platform) on this issue, though I'm not counting on it (more on this later).

Second reason I locked this topic was because some of the discussion was getting a little wayward and assumptions that may prove false were being made.  Let's be clear here: there are only a few known knowns.  We know that there was a copyright C&D blitz starting three or four months ago.  We know that an LLC that was behind many of the copyright complaints was associated with person who has been banned from this forum for many, many years.  We know that certain banned members have threatened physical harm towards a current member and disclosed private information towards a member of the media.  But that's all we really know.  Any further assertions are simply assumptions and should be treated as such.  Until such time we get further clarification, endless speculation and arguments based on possible faulty assumptions is not going to help us get to the bottom it.  This issue is better dealt with via PMs involving members of the forum's staff.  Further public discussion will likely only hurt efforts to sort everything out.  Inaccurate accusations, even when those accusations are levelled against shitheads, take us two steps backwards.  

Third, what matters most and concern everyone above everything else is that people are having their families threatened and their personal information disclosed over a band.  This cannot be allowed to continue.  While the loss of YouTube channels and access to bootlegs are disappointing (especially for those who dedicated hundreds of ours in their hobby), ultimately they are not our main concern.  What we cannot abide by is having people attack members of this community for the simple reason that they can.  I would like to preface expectations here that I don't really think there's anything GNR can or will do about this issue.  It should be a concern to them if certain parties are acting on their behalf without expressed consent to do so, but ultimately that's their business.  But expecting GNR to involve itself into what is essentially a private matter is likely to result in more frustration and disappointment for the rest of us.  What Russ's open-letter highlights is some of the worst behaviour and abuses within the community that for many goes unseen.  It's important to take a stand and let everyone know that we are not a community that will sit idly by and let our own members and fellow fans feel unsafe and alone.  Members like @Gambit83 have picked up the torch and shone a light on to the worst parts of this community in the hopes of exposing what is a real problem that must be addressed.  Criminal activity should be reported to the proper officials and we should all be vigilant against those who would make any of us unsafe.  We all have our own expectations as to what we want to happen but I suggest we temper those with what TB and/or GNR is likely to do here.  This isn't to rebuke Russ or defend TB, but just a call for perspective with respect to the various parties involved and their resulting legal and moral imperatives and  implications.  

Finally, I want to apologize personally for not being more proactive on this matter and other issues.  This forum would probably be better served with another owner more able or willing to engage/push those in the know or engage those who seek to do us harm.  Running two businesses while raising my first daughter who just turned eight months has zapped me of all available free time and energy.  When I bought this forum four and a half years ago I wasn't married and being a father was a long far-off goal.  I apologize that I haven't been able to deliver more for the fanbase as a whole.  

We've long held a "do not engage" and ignore policy with respect to those who seek to do the forum harm.  Up until now it has largely worked for us as it denies what most of these asshats want most: attention.  This forum attracts a lot of decent and good people.  But with the good comes the deranged and those devoid of a life who seek to fill it with the anger and frustration of others.  Recent developments have made us question this do not engage policy and we're looking at ways we can leverage the size and scope of this forum to combat those that would do this forum and the community as a whole some harm (in a non mob-like manner).  We're a great group of people who have long looked to each other for support and reasons to remain a fan.  Our responsibility and obligations begin and end with us.  I feel like I've let the fanbase down by my absence the last year or so and I'm hoping this will change.  Thanks again for sticking around this forum and making it really the only real and worthy GNR forum.