What's your theory

[t-p-d-a]

Axl doesn't practice enough! Look at 2016 and his live performances for AC/DC. That was a older Axl who definitely practiced enough! Overall 2016 was a great Year for Axl.

 

[ChineseDemocracy2004]

19 hours ago, Dangom1 said:

For Axls sudden vocal change from 2010 to 2011? 

Health and motivation are my answers.

[jamillos]

2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

He was thinner in 06, i can see the weight loss in 06 compared to the early 00s show especially RIR. But 06 he sounded good, he was confident of CD being released that year and was  sounding and looking like he had a point to prove.

Yes but… even if he was thinner in 06 than 01, he definitely wasn’t in 2010, when he sang like the devil nonetheless. And even if he was… look, some extra 10 or 15 kilos don’t change the way your vocal cords work this drastically. 
Regardless of what I’ve said before, this is what I think happened – there’s a logical timeline: 

1) After the weird comeback of 01/02 and before 2006, as the CD was approaching, Axl had a vocal cord surgery or something like that. He then sounded great and gave it his best, the “imminent” CD needed promotion. He could always sound well for a year or so.
2) Then there was a 2-year pause for recuperation. 
3) After the CD release, he sounded great again for that one year. Again, promotion was needed, i.e. gave it his best. Another logical peak. 
4) After that though, he probably couldn’t sustain it any longer, and yes, there may have been other factors in the game as well. So it went down, and the rest kinda sucked. 
5) With the Reunion, he again got himself together, as it required nothing but the best. He sounded great and even better with AC/DC. But that was it – you could hear his throat suffering during the last songs of the last gigs. A year passed, and it started to go down again. 

By this token, he should theoretically sound well again once they come up with new music, which I’d love to expect to happen immediately in the post-Covid situation. Even if he lasts just for one year, that’s absolutely fine with me. They shouldn’t tour longer in one sitting anyway – better off with short chapters and recurring breaks in order to rest and work on new stuff. 
An idealist, I know.  

Edited March 18, 2021 by jamillos

[axlvai]

Ax need some woman who can wake up the motherfucker diablo on him.

 

[Tom2112]

9 hours ago, jamillos said:

Yes but… even if he was thinner in 06 than 01, he definitely wasn’t in 2010, when he sang like the devil nonetheless. And even if he was… look, some extra 10 or 15 kilos don’t change the way your vocal cords work this drastically. 
Regardless of what I’ve said before, this is what I think happened – there’s a logical timeline: 

1) After the weird comeback of 01/02 and before 2006, as the CD was approaching, Axl had a vocal cord surgery or something like that. He then sounded great and gave it his best, the “imminent” CD needed promotion. He could always sound well for a year or so.
2) Then there was a 2-year pause for recuperation. 
3) After the CD release, he sounded great again for that one year. Again, promotion was needed, i.e. gave it his best. Another logical peak. 
4) After that though, he probably couldn’t sustain it any longer, and yes, there may have been other factors in the game as well. So it went down, and the rest kinda sucked. 
5) With the Reunion, he again got himself together, as it required nothing but the best. He sounded great and even better with AC/DC. But that was it – you could hear his throat suffering during the last songs of the last gigs. A year passed, and it started to go down again. 

By this token, he should theoretically sound well again once they come up with new music, which I’d love to expect to happen immediately in the post-Covid situation. Even if he lasts just for one year, that’s absolutely fine with me. They shouldn’t tour longer in one sitting anyway – better off with short chapters and recurring breaks in order to rest and work on new stuff. 
An idealist, I know.  

I think IF he had vocal surgery that happened before 01/02. Apparently you're voice can become very clean in tone, and you become a little shakey when going for notes. Listening back to those years he sounded pretty shakey in times even when he wasn't running. I chalk a lot of that up to being winded, but the peculiar high clean voice? that came out of nowhere considering where things left off in 93.

Age is a factor, but not the main one. He did sing well in 2009-2010 but he was forcing it. In 2011 he was noticeably heavier and he was completely out of practice in voice and cardio. He was panting like he'd run a marathon there wasn't much recovery that year, but in 2012 he at least sounded strong on the the cleans and when he sang Jungle and RQ he could muster rasp to more than get through the songs.

Practice and age. He could probably be at his fattest and if he was following a strict vocal routine he could sing with power and rasp. 

With all things GNR though, Who really knows is the only thing we can say, I would love if an interviewer broached the subject and didn't just let him off with "I really have no idea why". Obviously no interviewer is going to say "Why do you sound so up and down at the start of tours" 😄 but ya'know.... Axl would also have to do an interview for this to ever be even the slightest possibility

[Arnuld]

Not to beat a dead horse (no pun intended) but the main reason his voice was so much worse is weight gain and being out of shape. Your vocal cords and head and neck muscles and diaphragm and trunk and spine muscles all play a roll in your ability to sing powerfully. When your body is de-conditioned those muscle groups cannot contract optimally leading to less vocal control and power. This is why many singers get worse as they age. Their muscular system is degrading. This is also why singers who emphasize proper nutrition and physical fitness (like Mick Jagger) can continue to perform at a level similar to their peak. Axl showed up in 2011 much heavier and much less fit than he was from 2006-2010. We are all sliding down the mountain but a healthy lifestyle and plenty of sleep and exercise can help to even out the slope. 

[Gordon Comstock]

The clean voice didn't really "come out of nowhere" in '01-02. On Anxious Disease he was definitely getting closer to the "CD" voice but still had some classic Axl tone, then the CD voice was all over Live Era in '99...

I always kinda believed the rumor that the label rejected an album in 2010, but I think sometime between trying to cancel the tour on twitter and the last show in Abu Dhabi, he basically said 'fuck it', and after the shows in December didn't really sing or take care of his voice for the next 10 months, resulting in the Rio disaster. And his voice was already getting thinner by the end of 2010, he still had power but the mickey voice was showing up more often...

[megaguns1982]

He doesn’t give a fuck anymore, he lost the war by crawling back to slash for the ultimate payday so he’s just phoning it in. The difference between his GNR and AC/DC performances is the proof right there.

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

He doesn’t give a fuck anymore, he lost the war by crawling back to slash for the ultimate payday so he’s just phoning it in. The difference between his GNR and AC/DC performances is the proof right there.

This is going to throw the discussion right off but...

How did Axl lose the war?? In 1996 when Slash left the band, Slash said "Axl wants to lead guitar players" "Axl wants to go and make an industrial record" "I'll never be an employee of GNR", in my opinion Slash eventually bent to the will of Axl and the almighty dollar! Axl also needed to do something drastic to make GNR vital again, so he did need Slash. I guess we'll call it a draw? but Slash definitely bent a bit more to have it where it is today. If the large part of a new record is CD era music, then Slash will have bent right over the barrel... this remains to be seen though. I hope he hasn't because that would really suck and would rub off on any music that is released. I believe the company line that they are actually on good terms and have a working relationship too though.

[WhazUp]

29 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

 

How did Axl lose the war??

 By writing Silkworms and hiring DJ mainly

 

Only half joking

[jamillos]

3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I think IF he had vocal surgery that happened before 01/02. Apparently you're voice can become very clean in tone, and you become a little shakey when going for notes. Listening back to those years he sounded pretty shakey in times even when he wasn't running. I chalk a lot of that up to being winded, but the peculiar high clean voice? that came out of nowhere considering where things left off in 93.

Age is a factor, but not the main one. He did sing well in 2009-2010 but he was forcing it. In 2011 he was noticeably heavier and he was completely out of practice in voice and cardio. He was panting like he'd run a marathon there wasn't much recovery that year, but in 2012 he at least sounded strong on the the cleans and when he sang Jungle and RQ he could muster rasp to more than get through the songs.

Practice and age. He could probably be at his fattest and if he was following a strict vocal routine he could sing with power and rasp. 

With all things GNR though, Who really knows is the only thing we can say, I would love if an interviewer broached the subject and didn't just let him off with "I really have no idea why". Obviously no interviewer is going to say "Why do you sound so up and down at the start of tours" 😄 but ya'know.... Axl would also have to do an interview for this to ever be even the slightest possibility

Well, there is this new viewpoint folks have said here recently that I hadn’t previously considered – that he was already kinda thinning out the rasp during 93, and then there was the 96 Outpatience thing, where we couldn’t hear much, but considering how he sounded later starting 99, it would suggest it was a gradual process. And then the difference between 02 and 06 was so huge that any “surgery” would make sense to have happened between these two points. A few kilos simply couldn’t have been the cause. Anyway, we’ll never know, and like you say, it’s hard to imagine that anyone would ask him that, especially when he gives like one interview in a hundred years… 

 

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

The clean voice didn't really "come out of nowhere" in '01-02. On Anxious Disease he was definitely getting closer to the "CD" voice but still had some classic Axl tone, then the CD voice was all over Live Era in '99...

I always kinda believed the rumor that the label rejected an album in 2010, but I think sometime between trying to cancel the tour on twitter and the last show in Abu Dhabi, he basically said 'fuck it', and after the shows in December didn't really sing or take care of his voice for the next 10 months, resulting in the Rio disaster. And his voice was already getting thinner by the end of 2010, he still had power but the mickey voice was showing up more often...

This

Edited March 19, 2021 by jamillos

[megaguns1982]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

This is going to throw the discussion right off but...

How did Axl lose the war?? In 1996 when Slash left the band, Slash said "Axl wants to lead guitar players" "Axl wants to go and make an industrial record" "I'll never be an employee of GNR", in my opinion Slash eventually bent to the will of Axl and the almighty dollar! Axl also needed to do something drastic to make GNR vital again, so he did need Slash. I guess we'll call it a draw? but Slash definitely bent a bit more to have it where it is today. If the large part of a new record is CD era music, then Slash will have bent right over the barrel... this remains to be seen though. I hope he hasn't because that would really suck and would rub off on any music that is released. I believe the company line that they are actually on good terms and have a working relationship too though.

Yeah let’s call it a draw.

[Blackstar]

I guess the people who attribute it to the weight gain have never heard of Pavarotti (and many other overweight opera singers)?  And I believe there is nothing more demanding than opera. Of course opera singers practice a lot and they don't have to move much when they perform.

The weight doesn't affect the power of the voice. The only effect it may have, in the case of moving a lot while singing, is loss of breath. But that is not Axl's main problem, is it? Besides, the fact that he performs moving around for three hours suggests that he is in good physical shape, despite the weight.

[Rovim]

4 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

This is going to throw the discussion right off but...

How did Axl lose the war?? In 1996 when Slash left the band, Slash said "Axl wants to lead guitar players" "Axl wants to go and make an industrial record" "I'll never be an employee of GNR", in my opinion Slash eventually bent to the will of Axl and the almighty dollar! Axl also needed to do something drastic to make GNR vital again, so he did need Slash. I guess we'll call it a draw? but Slash definitely bent a bit more to have it where it is today. If the large part of a new record is CD era music, then Slash will have bent right over the barrel... this remains to be seen though. I hope he hasn't because that would really suck and would rub off on any music that is released. I believe the company line that they are actually on good terms and have a working relationship too though.

they both "won" I suppose, cause the tour was a huge success but Axl called Slash, not the other way around. I think they need each other as musicians and to make more money as well.

[jamillos]

28 minutes ago, Rovim said:

they both "won" I suppose, cause the tour was a huge success but Axl called Slash, not the other way around. I think they need each other as musicians and to make more money as well.

10 years after Slash tried to get to Axl's house first! An approx. 10-year delay is Axl's standard rate, so this math mystery is thus solved. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by jamillos

[alfierose]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I guess the people who attribute it to the weight gain have never heard of Pavarotti (and many other overweight opera singers)?  And I believe there is nothing more demanding than opera. Of course opera singers practice a lot and they don't have to move much when they perform.

The weight doesn't affect the power of the voice. The only effect it may have, in the case of moving a lot while singing, is loss of breath. But that is not Axl's main problem, is it? Besides, the fact that he performs moving around for three hours suggests that he is in good physical shape, despite the weight.

Yes. I don't quite get this argument. He has typical weight gain patterns seen in a lot of older men but he can't be that unfit. Even an hour of one of those shows would have me carted off on a stretcher.

[19AT5]

30 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Yes. I don't quite get this argument. He has typical weight gain patterns seen in a lot of older men but he can't be that unfit. Even an hour of one of those shows would have me carted off on a stretcher.

I sing and have sung in bands for years. Being slimmer and fitter, with emphasis on the latter, certainly helps the breathing process. No doubt about it. 

 

As for the Pavarotti comparison... not all that valid. Old Pav stayed still the entire gig. Axl still likes to run around. Being larger and unfit will make that harder.

[gnfnrs1972]

My theory is that he hasn't lost the rasp in his voice. He uses it when he wants. I believe he has lost the strained whine sound such as used in you could be mine and sweet child. 

[Anju]

If I'm not mistaken, I'd read somewhere that Axl said he cleaned his voice deliberately for the CD recordings. 

And if you listen to Knockin' on heaven's door from 1999 - you can hear his voice is much cleaner.

[vloors]

On 3/18/2021 at 1:39 PM, Amaya said:

Age. It happens. Even on NITL tour with vocal coaches and other professionals, age happens. Some people age differently.  After 2021, who knows what he will sound like or if they will tour NITL part 2. 

Rubbish about age however not taking care of your voice and smoking hard will f up your vocals eventually. 

[vloors]

On 3/19/2021 at 7:07 PM, Blackstar said:

I guess the people who attribute it to the weight gain have never heard of Pavarotti (and many other overweight opera singers)?  And I believe there is nothing more demanding than opera. Of course opera singers practice a lot and they don't have to move much when they perform.

The weight doesn't affect the power of the voice. The only effect it may have, in the case of moving a lot while singing, is loss of breath. But that is not Axl's main problem, is it? Besides, the fact that he performs moving around for three hours suggests that he is in good physical shape, despite the weight.

Maybe someone should break Axls leg again lol. If you noticed he was  sounding awesome when his movement was restricted in the 2016 gnr gigs and in axl dc he didnt move around much.

 

[Kranich]

When talking about weight. Dont forget about 70 years old Udo that is also fat as fuck, but still nails every song live.

 

[19AT5]

2 hours ago, Kranich said:

When talking about weight. Dont forget about 70 years old Udo that is also fat as fuck, but still nails every song live.

 

That sounds fucking awful. 

[Kranich]

3 minutes ago, 19AT5 said:

That sounds fucking awful. 

Sounds closer to the recording than any of what Axl has been doing onstage for the past 3 years.

 

[19AT5]

4 minutes ago, Kranich said:

Sounds closer to the recording than any of what Axl has been doing onstage for the past 3 years.

 

It may well be, but to my ears it does not sound good. At all.