Look Away documentary - #MeToo Axl Rose / Steven Tyler

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Nice Boy said:

Since all that she has also said she's partaken in a documentary, giving an interview about her experience. It hasn't been aired yet though as far as I know. If/when it does and gets a lot of publicity then I think Axl's public image could take a dive. 

It seems it was this same documentary. She said her story hasn't been included eventually "for legal reasons" (I suppose they couldn't find anything/anyone to back it up).

Edited September 12, 2021 by Blackstar

[Powderfinger]

11 hours ago, jamillos said:

Interesting how it always takes about 3 decades to come out with this (and in no way am I advocating any such kind of behaviour; as Bill Burr said, these men should be buried under the prison). 
Oh well, they got the actors and voice actors, now the PC establishment is coming for the rock stars. They'd have to lock up pretty much all of them, though. 

This stuff has been about FOR decades. The punk/grunge movement actively tried to tackle the sexist behaviour in rock over 30 years ago. It was a problem for people then. It’s why guys like Cobain were wearing dresses and not wanting to tour with GNR.  

(In some far flung reality, Axl ends up in prison and the line “turn around bitch I got a use for you” takes on a new meaning) 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Powderfinger

[Powderfinger]

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

The press, media pick target, how many people knew that Lennon beat his first wife? 

I think almost everyone who likes music knows this. 

[SOH]

2 hours ago, allwaystired said:

It's so weird what people get 'cancelled' for. Seems no rhyme or reason to it. 

For example - Queens Of The Stone Age's Josh Homme's kids file for a restraining order claiming all sorts of abuse, he's previously been accused of headbutting his ex-wife, etc etc. Seems to just go unnoticed. Roman Polanski seems to have a pass out despite being a convicted paedophile on the run from the law! 

Others make one ill judged joke or have a view that isn't liked, and they're done. All very odd. 

 

 

Homme does seem to have a pattern of this type of behavior but that restraining order was just filed two days ago and got treated like appropriately big news from my vantage point. 

[Blackstar]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:10 PM, Blackstar said:

Yes, Sheila Kennedy has told her story before:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3430098/Former-Penthouse-Pet-Year-live-lover-Bob-Guccione-tells-drugged-Axl-Rose-grabbed-hair-dragged-carpet-tied-hands-sex-said-sorry.html

She has also released a book that contains parts of the story that she didn't include in the interview.

Since Sheila Kennedy's story will be in the documentary, here it is as presented in her book (mainly the parts and details that are not mentioned in the Daily Mail article and her video interview included in it):

Riki Rachtman was present when the scene she describes took place. Back at the club, Sheila saw Axl and was attracted to him (she says she didn't know who he was and hadn't even heard Sweet Child O' Mine - which is a bit odd, since she seems to have known members of minor hair bands, but okay). Then Axl invited her to party with him and Riki in the hotel suite they shared and she accepted - it was going to be a foursome*. Axl didn't want Sheila's friend to go with them, but in the meantime Riki found  himself another woman.

The four of them went to the hotel and Riki made all the "hangers on" that were there leave. Sheila went to the bathroom and saw that Axl had, besides lithium, which she mentions in the Daily Mail interview, various anti-psychotic meds. She didn't like that (being experienced enough to suspect what the combination of coke and that stuff could do) and also wasn't too keen to have sex with Riki, but she wanted Axl. Axl started making out with the other woman and Sheila with Riki (there are some details about that). Then Riki took her to the other room and soon afterwards they heard Axl breaking stuff. Riki tried to tell Sheila to leave. Axl threw the other woman out, grabbed Sheila and did what she describes in the Daily Mail interview. Riki Rachtman was just sitting there. After that, they had some more (consensual) sex* (there are details about what they did exactly) and Axl said he was sorry and didn't mean to do what he had done before. Then they both passed out.

When she woke up in the morning, Axl had left. She says, like in the Daily Mail interview, that the reason Axl had left so early was that he had to go to the Howard Stern show, and when Stern asked him why he was late, Axl said he'd spent the night "with a Penthouse pet." That's another odd part, because Axl has ever done only two interviews with Stern, both on the phone (the first time Stern called him in his hotel room in New York and the other time Axl and Sebastian Bach called in from L.A.) and in none of them anything like that was mentioned.

* If Axl did what she said, these details don't make him less guilty, but they are part of the story as she has told it.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Blackstar

[nycgunner]

My two favorite front men of all time. I’d be disappointed if the cancel culture machine takes out these guys, when both bands have tons of vault material that should be released sooner or later 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by nycgunner

[Ratam]

1 hour ago, Powderfinger said:

I think almost everyone who likes music knows this. 

I find it in random form few time ago. No any article about Lennon talk about it, reverse Axl many article about he beat women. The Lennon image that the press had create is most as Pacifist.

[merryfnchristmas]

4 hours ago, alfierose said:

Golden era rockstars are like teflon when it comes to cancellation. I think it's partly because they've always been upfront about the sex, drugs and R&R and it's what people expected of them in their prime and sometimes beyond. Look at what Bill Wyman got away with!

Teflon indeed. I was just thinking about Wyman the other day. I wonder if his retreat from the public eye has been to avoid heat for his weird (or ultimately criminal) behaviour. I'm a Stones fan and I'm holding on to their LPs, but I wouldn't have bought tickets to see 'em if Bill was still there. I don't judge people harshly if they feel otherwise, I believe we can all draw the line where we want - I just don't think rockers like Wyman (or others who come to mind) can be defended in the same way that say Jerry Lee Lewis can (i.e. weird as it sounds to urban folks in the 21st century, marrying your 13 y.o. cousin wasn't that strange in 1950s Louisiana...)

Interesting in the case of Morrissey where his apparent 'cancellation' isn't due to sexual indiscretions, but rather an alignment with the hard-right and awful statements like referring to Chinese people as a 'subspecies'. As much ire as it has provoked, I don't think many/any of my left-leaning friends have thrown out their Smiths records, and I know he's been embraced by some conservative folks as a result of the controversy. Pre-Covid he still seemed to be filling live venues, so sometimes it seems 'cancellations' are a shift in audience demography. Anyway, maybe he'll end up on a double-bill at a county fair with that dingdong from Staind sometime

I'm a fan of some of Kanye West's records and have enjoyed his shows, but I found his recent embrace of Marilyn Manson and Da Baby to be a cynical publicity stunt rather than something which pointed towards mercy or redemption. It might also be tough to tell if someone like Manson has been 'cancelled' or is simply washed up? 

One other thought...I'm not really sure that GnR is a safer/tamer entity these days on account of being 'woke' or 'PC', as some like to accuse them of. It seems far more likely that Axl has done a fair bit of growing up, especially in the last 10 years or so. Of course they're not going to be the raging, raw-nerve group they were in their youth.

Geez...I could go on with these tangents for way too long. I should probably stop this stream of consciousness that's probably getting off topic!

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by merryfnchristmas

[Powderfinger]

That Wyman thing was fucked. I’m a Stones fan, but fuck that, they even used that scandal to promote the tour after it. I have the following shirt in black. I bought it at a stones gig in 1994 when I was 15...  I wouldn’t wear it now... 

https://flashbak.com/the-rolling-stones-were-proud-to-withstand-under-age-sex-the-1994-poster-and-t-shirt-9356/

[merryfnchristmas]

3 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

That Wyman thing was fucked. I’m a Stones fan, but fuck that, they even used that scandal to promote the tour after it. I have the following shirt in black. I bought it at a stones gig in 1994 when I was 15...  I wouldn’t wear it now... 

https://flashbak.com/the-rolling-stones-were-proud-to-withstand-under-age-sex-the-1994-poster-and-t-shirt-9356/

Wow, ffs

[merryfnchristmas]

My aunt got me a ticket to a Motley Crue show years ago (I'm by no means a fan, but she's awesome and needed a show buddy). We're not po faced people, but we wound up leaving during Tommy Lee's TittyCam (TM). At one point Tommy was harassing a young woman to get her boobs out for the cameras (while also encouraging the crowd in a chant of 'GET. THEM. OUT' or some shit). "Come on baby, they're just titties, I'll bust my shit out for you!" 

Seeing this woman (probably about 18/19 years old) reluctantly acquiesce to Tommy was the absolute lowlight of my concert-going life. My aunt went and got a refund on her merch and we drove home feeling deflated. Fuck those guys.

[Nice Boy]

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

It seems it was this same documentary. She said her story hasn't been included eventually "for legal reasons" (I suppose they couldn't find anything/anyone to back it up).

Ah.

Curious though, why would her story be any more unverifiable than the one with the Penthouse girl that did get included in the documentary, the scenario of which indicated there being no other witnesses to the event (whereas there were apparently other witnesses to the Michelle incident, even if they couldn't be verified / unable to give evidence) ?

[Blackstar]

6 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

Ah.

Curious though, why would her story be any more unverifiable than the one with the Penthouse girl that did get included in the documentary, the scenario of which indicated there being no other witnesses to the event (whereas there were apparently other witnesses to the Michelle incident, even if they couldn't be verified / unable to give evidence) ?

There were no witnesses to the actual incident. She said there were other people in there, who were not passed out, but didn't name them when she was asked here, saying she didn't know who they were (although she said she was a regular in that place). She named certain people that were there afterwards, but most likely the documentary couldn't verify with them (and they wouldn't be able to confirm the actual incident anyway). There were also many other parts in that story (that she dated Axl, that she was pregnant and miscarried, etc.), some of which didn't sound at all believable. If they couldn't verify any of that with witnesses, or find the police report and potentially court documents, or at least pictures, then there was nothing to back it up. Then she said some things like that one of Duff's songs in his latest solo album was about her and that Duff said that in an interview, which wasn't true. Last but not least, that was a case that went through the legal system and the charges were dropped.

Sheila Kennedy has named witnesses (it's in her book - see my post above) that were there during the incident, although I doubt the documentary verified with them. Maybe her story sounded more believable to them, plus it'd already been out there without legal issues.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Blackstar
Added

[Pele]

14 hours ago, Blackstar said:

The bolded happened even in the '90s. The People magazine cover and article were arranged by a big PR company hired by Erin's legal team.

But, supposing that happened today and someone decided to unearth old allegations against Axl, what would be the actual consequences for his career other than bad press and social media backlash? He can't be taken to court, since the statute of limitations has long expired - unless there'll be a similar Act like the one that prompted the lawsuit against Bob Dylan about something that allegedly happened in 1965 (!), but that was exclusively about underage victims. Manson was dropped by his record label and management. Would GnR be dropped by UMG? Even if they would, they have enough money to finance a record themselves (supposing the would want to). Would Axl be fired from the band or dropped by TB? (lol).

No - he just runs the risk of being the victim of 'cancel culture' where he is targeted by people spreading past and known indiscretions.

If this happened to Axl, venues, promoters and other artists tend to distance themselves so it's likely Slash/Duff would remove themselves from the situation.

 

I'm not saying it will, and I don't think it should. 

I feel it's a risk in today's society and there is enough ammunition for someone to attempt it.  As we know, the people who do this tend to be Trump hating, left wing supporters, which is the stance Axl seems to have adopted over the last few years, so he's unlikely to be targeted.

14 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I think the only thing a big media backlash might cause is his disappearing from the public eye again.

Exactly.  He doesn't release music so that doesn't matter.  He'd just stop touring.

[Pele]

12 hours ago, allwaystired said:

It's so weird what people get 'cancelled' for. Seems no rhyme or reason to it. 

For example - Queens Of The Stone Age's Josh Homme's kids file for a restraining order claiming all sorts of abuse, he's previously been accused of headbutting his ex-wife, etc etc. Seems to just go unnoticed. Roman Polanski seems to have a pass out despite being a convicted paedophile on the run from the law! 

Others make one ill judged joke or have a view that isn't liked, and they're done. All very odd. 

 

 

Yeah that's the point I'm making really.

Some have done some shocking stuff and it goes unnoticed.

Some get 'cancelled' over a flippant or insensitive comment.

How many women have spoken out about abuse from Axl?  Is it 4-5?  Either that will be it, or someday more will come forward with historical allegation - some may be true, others may be false.

As I've alluded to, the best thing you can do to mitigate risk is align yourself with the democratic anti-Trump movement and hope they leave you alone.  

[MaskingApathy]

11 minutes ago, Pele said:

If this happened to Axl, venues, promoters and other artists tend to distance themselves so it's likely Slash/Duff would remove themselves from the situation.

It's not like Slash/Duff are angels here either.

[Pele]

Just now, MaskingApathy said:

It's not like Slash/Duff are angels here either.

Of course, but they's likely do what they can to avoid issues.

[allwaystired]

1 hour ago, Pele said:

Yeah that's the point I'm making really.

Some have done some shocking stuff and it goes unnoticed.

Some get 'cancelled' over a flippant or insensitive comment.

How many women have spoken out about abuse from Axl?  Is it 4-5?  Either that will be it, or someday more will come forward with historical allegation - some may be true, others may be false.

As I've alluded to, the best thing you can do to mitigate risk is align yourself with the democratic anti-Trump movement and hope they leave you alone.  

I don't really think being 'anti-Trump' has much to do with it. Surely being 'anti-Trump' is just the default setting now for anyone with even half a brain cell? 

I don't think there's anything calculated about Axl's dislike for the Orange Mussolini. 

[siraddam]

Dizzy Reed comes of as a bit of a scummy guy as well. Just Google 'Dizzy Reed and Roxana Shirazi.' 

[Pele]

41 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

I don't really think being 'anti-Trump' has much to do with it. Surely being 'anti-Trump' is just the default setting now for anyone with even half a brain cell? 

I don't think there's anything calculated about Axl's dislike for the Orange Mussolini. 

Yeah but Axl is a cringe edge-lord with several past misdemeanors re misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.

I'm imagine he thinks 'grab her by the pussy' is edgy n' cool. 

[allwaystired]

19 minutes ago, Pele said:

Yeah but Axl is a cringe edge-lord with several past misdemeanors re misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.

I'm imagine he thinks 'grab her by the pussy' is edgy n' cool. 

I imagine he very much doesn't! 

There is the concept of people growing and maturing up you know. It's an unfashionable concept these days when our world leaders act like spoiled children.....but not actually being the same person we were when we were 20 is still embraced by many! 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

I imagine he very much doesn't! 

There is the concept of people growing and maturing up you know. It's an unfashionable concept these days when our world leaders act like spoiled children.....but not actually being the same person we were when we were 20 is still embraced by many! 

So he's matured up to the point where "grab her by the pussy" is no longer edgy n' cool but "pussy full of maggots" still is?

Baby steps, baby steps...

[Pele]

16 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

So he's matured up to the point where "grab her by the pussy" is no longer edgy n' cool but "pussy full of maggots" still is?

Baby steps, baby steps...

"Riad and the Bedoiuns, had a chance and thought they'd win, but I don't give a fuck 'bout them, cause I AM CRAZY!!!!"

Also, this guy, when in his late 40s, looked at DJ Ashba and presumably thought "I NEED this guy in my band, he can't play very well but he looks so cool"

Edited September 12, 2021 by Pele

[jekylhyde]

41 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

So he's matured up to the point where "grab her by the pussy" is no longer edgy n' cool but "pussy full of maggots" still is?

Baby steps, baby steps...

These two phrases don't really compare. Other one is about exploiting one's position of power to degrade women in real life situations and other one is lyrics.

Edited September 12, 2021 by jekylhyde

[weaponsnflowers]

I kind of think that when you are involved with people that use drugs, it's kinda given that there's going to be violence and volatile behavior. Specially when there's a whole mix of different chemicals and people with mental health issues already. It's not going to be a walk in the park.