Russia Invades Ukraine

[action]

1 hour ago, Serial Killer said:

I'm not saying Russia is going to conquer EU, but war in the continent is happening and that means WWIII, nuclear weapons and millions of dead. I live there unfortunately. Thanks NATO. Thanks EU. Thanks Biden. Thanks WEF. They've been planning this catastrophe for decades.

well, our woke governments had to stick their nose in the beehive and "supporting" ukraine. well, that has went well. high gas prices, high prices of everything, and increasingly doomsday talk from puta

but hey, we really showed russia with our sanctions

I wonder, did our governments ever "ask" us if we "wanted" to "support" ukraine by living in a cold house coming winter? or did they just decide in our place, in a misplaced attempt to be hip and woke?

Edited September 21, 2022 by action

[PatrickS77]

19 minutes ago, action said:

I wonder, did our governments ever "ask" us if we "wanted" to "support" ukraine by living in a cold house coming winter? or did they just decide in our place, in a misplaced attempt to be hip and woke?

Well. "We" certainly didn't want to support Russia.

[action]

2 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Well. "We" certainly didn't want to support Russia.

I wasn't aware we needed to support anyone, period. who said we needed to? what democratic backing is there, for such a highly riskfull endeavour?

if people knew what they would get us into, most people would vote "no" to support, and with good reason

why support a far country, when it means you can't barely pay your bills? only extremists ignore the consequences like that. the rest of us, just want to be left alone.

[PatrickS77]

5 minutes ago, action said:

I wasn't aware we needed to support anyone, period. who said we needed to? what democratic backing is there, for such a highly riskfull endeavour?

if people knew what they would get us into, most people would vote "no" to support, and with good reason

why support a far country, when it means you can't barely pay your bills? only extremists ignore the consequences like that. the rest of us, just want to be left alone.

Yeah. Nevermind the shit going on, as long as you are well. To continue to give them money and doing business with them is supporting them.

[grouse]

3 hours ago, Serial Killer said:

I'm not saying Russia is going to conquer EU, but war in the continent is happening and that means WWIII, nuclear weapons and millions of dead. I live there unfortunately. Thanks NATO. Thanks EU. Thanks Biden. Thanks WEF. They've been planning this catastrophe for decades.

 Would you care to explain how you came to that conclusion?

Edited September 21, 2022 by grouse

[ZoSoRose]

I mean, the current conflict is a wet dream for the USA and NATO. NATO gets to steamroll Russia without a single boot on the ground. Russia is despicable, and Putin deserves to go to Hell, but NATO isn’t pouring so much into Ukraine for charity or a strict humanitarian cause. We have sat out plenty of conflicts over the years.

Russia has essentially collapsed itself militarily and humiliated itself on the world stage. I’m sure there will be plenty more Putin saber rattling to come. He grossly miscalculated and NATO gets to successfully fight and show Russia up at long last without entering the war. Sadly, many of innocent people are dying needlessly

 

[action]

3 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

 

Hah haaah. Well, you're allowed to change your mind I suppose.

 

in a changing world, it is imperative to change your mind accordingly

people who, confronted with a changing reality, stick with their same opinion, are at best stupid, and at worst totalitarian

I've never understood this "you changed your mind, see, you're a moron" reasoning that you see here from time to time. Such reasoning is so shallow it physically makes me feel embarrassed.

[action]

9 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's definitely a good thing to be able to change your mind. Was just pointing it out since you disagreed with me so strongly at first.

oh, but that was during the war between me and you 

in all seriousness, it took a very long time to make up my mind about ukraine and russia

usually I have a clear view on things, but this time I didn't and I didn't engage in the discussion very much.

what I did realise, from the very start however, was this "all support ukraine, death to all russians" made me very, very unfomfortable.

first, because it's not my habit to support slogans that start with "together". the word "together" has totalitarian connections. It refers to the collective, as opposed to the individual.

second, because not every russian is bad; only puta is. strangely, many people didnt realise this

[SoulMonster]

Putin being forced to call inn 300,000 reservists. Not going well for him. Unclear how many forces he will actually get. Still, this is ramping up the war.

[Padme]

21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Putin being forced to call inn 300,000 reservists. Not going well for him. Unclear how many forces he will actually get. Still, this is ramping up the war.

Putin strikes me as someone who would stop at nothing. The Russians better come up with some kind of Valkyrie operation. If they want to stop this madness.  Or the West should go after Russia. And I don't mean economic sanctions. But that might make things even worst

[Dazey]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Putin being forced to call inn 300,000 reservists. Not going well for him. Unclear how many forces he will actually get. Still, this is ramping up the war.

300,000 who will take a while to get to the front line if he decides to give them any training. I do wonder what he's planning on equipping them with considering his resources have taken an absolute kicking. I also can't see them all doing very well camping out in the open through a Ukrainian winter. 

[Coma16]

10 hours ago, action said:

oh, but that was during the war between me and you 

in all seriousness, it took a very long time to make up my mind about ukraine and russia

usually I have a clear view on things, but this time I didn't and I didn't engage in the discussion very much.

what I did realise, from the very start however, was this "all support ukraine, death to all russians" made me very, very unfomfortable.

first, because it's not my habit to support slogans that start with "together". the word "together" has totalitarian connections. It refers to the collective, as opposed to the individual.

second, because not every russian is bad; only puta is. strangely, many people didnt realise this

Funny you mention this anti-russia sentimate that many virture singalers have (i read that a cafe wouldn't let people in if they didnt update their FB pic in support of Ukraine), even my CCCP profile image was censored here without any warning or reasoning behind it. I was going to ask in the Support thread about it but didn't bother.

[downzy]

2 hours ago, Coma16 said:

Funny you mention this anti-russia sentimate that many virture singalers have (i read that a cafe wouldn't let people in if they didnt update their FB pic in support of Ukraine), even my CCCP profile image was censored here without any warning or reasoning behind it. I was going to ask in the Support thread about it but didn't bother.

This is primarily a GNR forum.

Having an overtly political avatar is not conducive to the 99 percent of discussions on this forum that have nothing to do with politics.  There are a million different options as an avatar; there's no need to opt for one that inflames tensions and offends the members here who have family and friends living and dying in Ukraine.

You're free to voice your pro-Russian sentiment in this thread if that's how you feel.  And be judged accordingly.  

 

[downzy]

4 hours ago, Dazey said:

300,000 who will take a while to get to the front line if he decides to give them any training. I do wonder what he's planning on equipping them with considering his resources have taken an absolute kicking. I also can't see them all doing very well camping out in the open through a Ukrainian winter. 

I think this guy has a few things he could sell to Russia:

But yeah, not sure what 300k more poorly trained troops will do in the grand scheme of things if they have fuck all to fight with.

[Dazey]

47 minutes ago, downzy said:

I think this guy has a few things he could sell to Russia:

But yeah, not sure what 300k more poorly trained troops will do in the grand scheme of things if they have fuck all to fight with.

Brilliant podcast if you’ve got a few hours. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/battleground-ukraine/id1617276298

[action]

13 hours ago, Coma16 said:

Funny you mention this anti-russia sentimate that many virture singalers have (i read that a cafe wouldn't let people in if they didnt update their FB pic in support of Ukraine), even my CCCP profile image was censored here without any warning or reasoning behind it. I was going to ask in the Support thread about it but didn't bother.

support for ukraine is the new social credit point, after "being vaccinated"

a good citizen follows the collective, that means is vaccinated, supports ukraine, and is at war with eurasia, I mean Russia.

we were always at war with russia

[SoulMonster]

12 hours ago, downzy said:

But yeah, not sure what 300k more poorly trained troops will do in the grand scheme of things if they have fuck all to fight with.

If they manage to get them, it's twice as many as currently employed in Ukraine. Cannon fodder, perhaps, still Russia has won previous wars with the tactic of just overwhelming your enemy. 

Next step might be full mobilization of Russian forces, then we are talking about millions of soldiers. But I don't think the Russians will agree to that, he won't risk it, so then there might be tactical nukes instead. 

[action]

if the first nuke drops, then shit will hit the fan

ukraine will say it was the russians, russia will say it was ukraine, biden will say something demented causing russia to drop nukes on the US, and so on, and so on

between corona, climate warriors, woke warriors, metoo warriors and puta, the last few years have been suffocating. 

I just want rest, and be left alone

Edited September 23, 2022 by action

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Why don't they just bomb the hell out of Kyiv? Like drop tactical nukes on Kyiv and other targets and call it a day. Obviously, I don't want that and I'm not advocating for that. Just seems easier than this mess of an invasion.

Ukrainians have total air control meaning bombers and missiles can't get through?

I suppose because it would like cause a full out war with the west, might make the Ukrainians less willing to yield regions, and will cause massive domestic protests. 

[downzy]

45 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I suppose because it would like cause a full out war with the west, might make the Ukrainians less willing to yield regions, and will cause massive domestic protests. 

Yeah, there's not much point in Putin's efforts to shore up his legacy if the planet descends into a nuclear winter.

An interesting and somewhat frightening development I've been reading the last couple of weeks involves the right flank of Russian politics.  Commentators in the west have fantasized about a popular uprising that would depose Putin and Russia would return on a liberal-democratic slant that it began to take 25 years ago.  However, Putin also has to keep at bay the hardline ultra-nationalists, who apparently make up a lot of the military brass and intelligence operations.  The concern is that if Putin gets tossed it is more likely Russia gets led by someone more aggressive and confrontational than someone who will wind down the war in Ukraine.  Putin really gambled going into Ukraine and now that it's not going well he has to watch his right flank, more so than his left.

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

If they manage to get them, it's twice as many as currently employed in Ukraine. Cannon fodder, perhaps, still Russia has won previous wars with the tactic of just overwhelming your enemy. 

Next step might be full mobilization of Russian forces, then we are talking about millions of soldiers. But I don't think the Russians will agree to that, he won't risk it, so then there might be tactical nukes instead. 

I think the difference here is that the west weren't arming Russia's adversary with high-grade military equipment, intelligence, and real-time analysis in Russia's previous smaller skirmishes.  The U.S. and the West have a lot of weapons they could be supplying to Ukraine but have held off so far because of fears of Ukraine's using it to hit Russia proper.  More poorly trained Russian soldiers given nothing but an old AK-47 isn't going to do much against a better trained and equipped domestic force fighting on home soil.  Moreover, a full mobilization of Russian forces leaves a lot of opportunity for its numerous neighbours to take advantage.  In some sense it must suck to have such a large border to defend.

The use of tactical nukes would completely change the game.  The West would then cut off Russia completely and threaten to cut off any nation still willing to have anything to do with Russia (including China).  This would almost certainly take China and India out of the neutral column, as they've already warned Russia that it's on thin ice as is.  Ukraine would get cart blanche with respect to military assistance and equipment.  I don't think the West and the rest of the world would call it a day on civilization over Ukraine, but anything beyond Ukraine's borders and it was nice knowing you all.  And ultimately, you have to believe those running the show in Russia understand this.  There's no scenario where they start dropping nukes outside of Ukraine and they also get to survive.  

 

4 hours ago, action said:

ukraine will say it was the russians, russia will say it was ukraine, biden will say something demented causing russia to drop nukes on the US, and so on, and so on

Ukraine doesn't have any nuclear weapons.  Russia has already threatened to use its nuclear arsenal.  So why would Russia blame Ukraine?

[downzy]

7 hours ago, action said:

support for ukraine is the new social credit point, after "being vaccinated"

a good citizen follows the collective, that means is vaccinated, supports ukraine, and is at war with eurasia, I mean Russia.

we were always at war with russia

For someone who apparently wants to be left alone, you sure do a lot of whining on the internet to complete strangers.

[downzy]

35 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'm taking your non-response in the Rings of Power thread as quiet agreement.

To be honest I haven't read it.  I'm kind of burned out on the topic, plus being sick, managing a sick four year old home from school, and being busy with work hasn't left me much time.  

[Dazey]

8 hours ago, downzy said:

Yeah, there's not much point in Putin's efforts to shore up his legacy if the planet descends into a nuclear winter.

If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that the way out of this is via involvement from China and India. Xi isn't going to be too pleased if his plan for world domination via belt and road etc is put on hold by a nuclear holocaust. I'm betting that China puts the brakes on this via economic pressure unless Putin really decides to go full retard. It's in China's interest to have Russia in the conversation as long as it's advantageous for them. Once the balance tips too far I can see a major reallignment on the cards and China doesn't want to be butting heads with NATO be it militarily or due to sanctions imposed as a consequence of getting too cosy with Putin.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Dazey

[Sosso]

German politicans want to become independent from russian oil and gas. They will have to rely on us-american frecking gas and other sources (Spain or Azerbaijan for example) which is much more expensive. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Sosso

[Serial Killer]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:36 PM, grouse said:

 Would you care to explain how you came to that conclusion?

Very simple. NATO was created by US to oppose Russia and guarantee western superiority. If there is no reason to fight Russia, NATO is useless so they have been trying for decades to provoke  Russia in order to finally start a bloody war, kill people and allow armaments lobbies to further enrich themselves. Furthermore, we have Klaus Schwab's World Economic Forum that pursues the project of the great reset which foresees the reduction of the world population (refer to his book "the fourth industrial revolution"). Behind it there are the most powerful families of the planet (Rothschild, Rockfeller, ecc) and they have already penetrated governments as Schwab himself declared. So, after forced inoculations, what's better than a world war to achieve these goals?

Edited September 24, 2022 by Serial Killer