Scream of the Butterfly Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 15 hours ago, Tom2112 said: One is a word that is filled with hatred because of skin colour. The other is a word that can be used on men or women of any race and is specifically used in reference to personality. Not the same thing at all. Why is it worse to use a hateful word that references a person's skin colour than it is to use a hateful word that references a person's gender? People who use the word "hooray for tolerance!" often maintain that not all black people are hooray for tolerance!s, only the ones with undesirable personalities. It seems to be the same logic as what you are applying. The fact that a man can be called a "bitch" doesn't make it any less misogynistic either. It merely carries the additional insult that he's not a real man because he's behaving like a woman and that's why you are using a slur that is normally reserved for women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merryfnchristmas Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 *If* there's a change to the 'Bitches' credit in the UYI box, I wouldn't judge Guns harshly for it, nor would I consider them to be going soft, being revisionist, buckling to the times or whatever you might want to call it. I'm not offended by the 'Bitches' credit (although I find it a bit goofy...). Good or bad, it reflects a time and a place. It happened, it is what it is. I liked UYI okay then and I like it okay now. But for a lot of people, humour is different in your 40s/50s than it was in your 20s. Life experience, growing up, mellowing. If GnR in their late 50s were reviewing the proofs for a re-release and baulked at 'Bitches', I can't say I'd blame them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 It's something that even the most dedicated fans here probably didn't catch until this thread. The band itself has probably long forgotten that it's in the credits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merryfnchristmas Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 42 minutes ago, mystery said: It's something that even the most dedicated fans here probably didn't catch until this thread. The band itself has probably long forgotten that it's in the credits. Oh I don't doubt it mate. But I guess in the absence of a new album we'll be analysing 30 year old credits #saveusaxl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said: Why is it worse to use a hateful word that references a person's skin colour than it is to use a hateful word that references a person's gender? People who use the word "hooray for tolerance!" often maintain that not all black people are hooray for tolerance!s, only the ones with undesirable personalities. It seems to be the same logic as what you are applying. The fact that a man can be called a "bitch" doesn't make it any less misogynistic either. It merely carries the additional insult that he's not a real man because he's behaving like a woman and that's why you are using a slur that is normally reserved for women. I'm sure if they had labelled them nagging women there would still be people saying "oh they are so misogynistic". What word would you prefer? Also don't play dumb, we all know the significance of the n word and if you honestly think it's comparable to saying bitch then you really need to go over your history. I think you'll also find that most people making the argument that it's a personality thing are black comedians, if a white comedian said that it would not be acceptable. Why am I having to explain this basic stuff???? I think anyone getting offended by the use of bitch in the liner notes needs to go outside and take a deep breath. You've been on the internet too long, you need to come back off the ledge😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansin Humanity Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, mystery said: Eminem got shit at the end of the 90s and early 2000s for his lyrics so way to generalize. Doesn't excuse anything Guns N ' Roses did but rap and hip hop pushed the line way further in the 90s-early 2000s. I say this as a fan of that genre who finds a lot of that era hard to go back to because of the lyrical content. fair! mad people hate on rap here (which sometimes seems to be a mask for some other sentiments) so i'm used to having my guard up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansin Humanity Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) mods delete double post Edited January 11, 2022 by Mansin Humanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixtlan Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 23 hours ago, Powderfinger said: Yeah they were. Right smack back then in their heyday they were. It’s why a band like Nirvana despised them. But it’s something that’s there if you’re gonna listen to them, it was the same back then. Maybe he’s Michael Scott and thinks misogyny is like another term for fortune tellers or something..... Saudi Arabia is misogynistic. The Taliban are misogynistic. GNR are a rock band that have at worst have unflattering lyrics about women. If GNR were misogynistic As you claim then songs like Sweet Child or Don’t Cry would not exist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream of the Butterfly Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Tom2112 said: Also don't play dumb, we all know the significance of the n word and if you honestly think it's comparable to saying bitch then you really need to go over your history. I think you'll also find that most people making the argument that it's a personality thing are black comedians, if a white comedian said that it would not be acceptable. Why am I having to explain this basic stuff???? And you don't think women have been historically oppressed? Sorry, but I'm not the ignorant one here. I'm aware that a lot of people are more tolerant of misogyny than racism and take greater offence to the N-word, but that doesn't mean there's any rational basis to it when you think about it. I've always taken such a double standard as a sign that the person's understanding of the issues is very superficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaguns1982 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 I’ll guarantee that if GnR hadn’t thought about it before, they certainly will now after seeing it here on the forum. Not to mention the women who were “bitches” might take issue with it nowadays but probably didn’t back then. If there’s an opportunity to edit a credit, why not? I still think it’s bullshit that they deleted “one in a million” like it never existed when all they really had to do was bleep out two words. pussies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said: And you don't think women have been historically oppressed? Sorry, but I'm not the ignorant one here. I'm aware that a lot of people are more tolerant of misogyny than racism and take greater offence to the N-word, but that doesn't mean there's any rational basis to it when you think about it. I've always taken such a double standard as a sign that the person's understanding of the issues is very superficial. No shit women have been oppressed, I think you're just looking for an argument when there's not one there. I'm not gonna get through to someone like you so fly on by... Now can we please discuss the coma girls... I mean bitches😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilacmess Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 This is probably off topic, but I read it as being credited as the role the women played in the song. Like in a movie actors would be credited as thief if they play one. That being said Gn'R obviously were at times misogyn and I personally don't agree with this few. I think it should be up for discussion, but I would never insist they must change past contrbutions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian girl Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 12 hours ago, mystery said: The lyrics on the Use Your Illusion albums are relatively tame compared to what was happening in rap music at the time and for at least 10 years after. Kool G Rap released Live and Let Die in 1992 and the lyrics on that album make Guns N' Roses look wholesome in comparison. I read some of Cardi B's lyrics. they're simply disgusting and disturbing.. and I have a strong stomach! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnderScott Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/10/2022 at 12:34 PM, RussTCB said: That's exactly how I feel. How on Earth can you love & support a band that opens with ISE literally every night of the tour and have the nerve to clutch your pearls at the term "bitches" in the UYI booklet?? And no, Duffs ultra woke attempt at explaining the ISE lyrics away (read: when he flat out lied) doesn't count as justification for being OK with them opening with ISE but then still claiming to be offended by use of the word "bitches". I’ve literally been backstage when Axl’s henchmen have taken girls one third of his age to his dressing room to meet the ‘boss’. These boys enjoyed their ‘toys’ and can’t pretend that they are saints. I for one don’t care, I wish I could do the same, so I’m cool with it but at least I’m up front and honest about it. Unlike woke Duff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RussTCB Posted January 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 hours ago, megaguns1982 said: I’ll guarantee that if GnR hadn’t thought about it before, they certainly will now after seeing it here on the forum. Not to mention the women who were “bitches” might take issue with it nowadays but probably didn’t back then. If there’s an opportunity to edit a credit, why not? I still think it’s bullshit that they deleted “one in a million” like it never existed when all they really had to do was bleep out two words. pussies While we're at it, I hope they remove "fuck you St Louis" from the liner notes as well. That's just too harsh! "fuck you" to an ENTIRE city?? Men, woman, children and people of all ages, creeds and colors live in that city! Let's forgot about context and any sort of humor. Let's just automatically go to being offended. Censorship is the only correct and clear way through this 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 5 hours ago, megaguns1982 said: I’ll guarantee that if GnR hadn’t thought about it before, they certainly will now after seeing it here on the forum. Not to mention the women who were “bitches” might take issue with it nowadays but probably didn’t back then. If there’s an opportunity to edit a credit, why not? I still think it’s bullshit that they deleted “one in a million” like it never existed when all they really had to do was bleep out two words. pussies There's more than just 2 words to bleep out in OIAM. It's basically two whole verses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilacmess Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 36 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: Attaboy. In all seriousness Sean does a great job in this video and I agree with him 100%. I'm kinda hijacking this to make a point. 😅 I don't agree with SC at all. But I'm against calling him the devil, singing kumbaya and boycotting everything he has ever done. I would prefer an honest, respectful discussion where people make points and explain them well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Bleeping anything out is a far worse solution than just omitting the song completely. For god's sake, this is GN'R, this is rock n' roll from the 80s/90s. Maybe F?!* OFF and buy something from the New Age section? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystery Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 7 hours ago, Italian girl said: I read some of Cardi B's lyrics. they're simply disgusting and disturbing.. and I have a strong stomach! I think rap music is a bit better with this than it was in the past but there's still explicit stuff in that genre. I was pointing out that Guns was being far eclipsed on that front by gangsta rap. UYI Guns were more controversial for Axl's volatility than lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/9/2022 at 3:07 PM, 2020_Intensions said: Along with Back Off Bitch right? Back off Sexworker 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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