Chinese era is finally ending?

[Sosso]

Just now, moreblack said:

Chinese ended when Ashba, Bumble, Pittman and Tommy got booted.

Pitman was the only one who got booted. DJ, Tommy and Bumble all left on their own.

[Slugworth]

6 hours ago, Sweersa said:

my hope is the remaining CD era songs are left alone and released as they were from that time

[Lethalis]

9 hours ago, moreblack said:

Chinese ended when Ashba, Bumble, Pittman and Tommy got booted.

It ended when Tommy Stinson had to leave to care for his daughter as a single father (and before that because he wanted to tour with The Replacements). This triggered the return of Duff (and later Slash). Then Ashba left when Slash came back.

If Tommy never left, Ashba would have stayed as well... and there might not be a reunion.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Lethalis

[jacdaniel]

I personally think Axl was tired of the whole Nu Guns project in that 11 - 14 period.  He knew the band was going nowhere and he'd likely have to recruit even more new members. 

His only options at the time was go solo or reunite. Another version of Nu Guns simply wouldn't have sold.

 

That's why I think people should be really happy that Slash returned and agreed to not only play a bunch of Chinese but also rework a bunch of Axls songs. 

He would have had a lot of power in those negotiations to simply say no not at all or maybe just agree to play 1 or 2 CD songs. 

[allwaystired]

9 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

I personally think Axl was tired of the whole Nu Guns project in that 11 - 14 period.  He knew the band was going nowhere and he'd likely have to recruit even more new members. 

His only options at the time was go solo or reunite. Another version of Nu Guns simply wouldn't have sold.

 

That's why I think people should be really happy that Slash returned and agreed to not only play a bunch of Chinese but also rework a bunch of Axls songs. 

He would have had a lot of power in those negotiations to simply say no not at all or maybe just agree to play 1 or 2 CD songs. 

The flip side of that though is that had Slash not returned the 'nostalgia' angle couldn't have been played, which might have forced something new to happen, music wise. 

It's equally likely though I suppose that new members would have been found and things would have just carried on, in smaller venues. 

We can only speculate! 

I wonder what we'd all choose, now? Would we, knowing that Slash returning has had very limited impact on any new music, sacrifice his return in favour of taking the risk that Nu-GNR would have evolved in an interesting way? 

Personally I wouldn't want to not have seen any of the NITL shows I have, and I have thoroughly enjoyed them.....but it would be a tough choice to say I'd have those experiences over seeing what might have happened with Nu-GNR. 

[F*ck Fear]

NITL was exciting in 2016. By the end of 2017 Axl's voice deteriorated and it's been a live shit show, since then.

Only saving grace is to actually release music.

[Barlog]

It's 2023 and both Slash and Duff are reworking some old chinese leftovers.

What the heck is this timeline. 

[Tom-Ass]

I hope so.. While Perhaps was ok the rest of the songs are trash.. They have been back together for almost 8 years now.. Slash and Duff could have pasted their tracks over CD demos in two weeks, released them all and been done with it.. But here we are... 

I go to the shows get fucked up and have a good time but once the shows are over there is nothing even remotely to get excited about with this band. 

[Its Tino]

I’m already worried a CD boxset would be underwhelming. I want too much out of it: 
 

CD 99

CD 01

CD 04

CD 06

CD Remixes 

CDII

Various pro-shots from each CD era

CD with commentary 

And last but not least, and not to be a total asshole, but I’d love to hear the official CD release without all of the Pitman sub-bass, clicks, beeps and other various noises. 
 

Unrelated to a box set: imagine a 6-8 episode limited series of the CD years??

[AlterL]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:03 PM, Sosso said:

How can you be so sure about that? We don't know if Slash loves or hates to play those songs. You are probably just making assumptions based on your own mind.

Slash would never play CD songs at a SMKC gig (he wont even play NR or Estranged for that matter - Axl's songs) but he seems to enjoy them in the context of GN'R.

I said he butchers them, not that he doesn't like them, he might even listen to them from time to time in his own time for all I care, but his own interpretations of those songs are truly not up to standards, not his own, and not to the original solos or past interpretations of them by the other guitarist that have been in this band. Honestly I know it's impossible but I wish Bumblefoot had stuck around, specially considering that the band is doing right now the idea he had all the way back in 2010.

[DoMw94]

7 hours ago, F*ck Fear said:

 and it's been a live shit show, since then.

It really hasn't 😂

Might not have been to your taste personally, but to say it's been a shit show is a massive overreaction

[ZODIAC]

13 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

I personally think Axl was tired of the whole Nu Guns project in that 11 - 14 period.  He knew the band was going nowhere and he'd likely have to recruit even more new members. 

His only options at the time was go solo or reunite. Another version of Nu Guns simply wouldn't have sold.

 

That's why I think people should be really happy that Slash returned and agreed to not only play a bunch of Chinese but also rework a bunch of Axls songs. 

He would have had a lot of power in those negotiations to simply say no not at all or maybe just agree to play 1 or 2 CD songs. 

Going nowhere... Yes. But who's to blame? Axl? The Label? If I remember correctly, a few members where annoyed from the lack of zero progression musically wise... At least Robin and Bumble...

Things would have gone very differently, if the original plan (CD I 2008, CD 2 2010, CD 3 2012) had worked out. But for some reason it hasn't. The reunion was the best case scenario for the band.. I really believe that the band would have been dead by now without NITL... 

[RONIN]

The world lost interest in Chinese Democracy after 2002's touring disaster and the missed release date for the album. Axl lost immense credibility and was considered damaged goods by then. That was the last window of real mainstream success for nu-GnR.  By the time he missed the 2006 release date and threw Merck under the bus, most of us die hards had lost interest - especially since a majority of the tracks had leaked by then.  The tour garnered some positive press but whatever last vestiges of interest in the band died with that missed release date for the album. By 2008, hardly anyone cared outside of the ride or die Axl fans. He just blew it. Lost two amazing lineups (original band, and the bucket/finck band) with just one album to show for all of those wasted years. Then he didn't do any press and then tours nearly a year later when people had long forgotten about Chinese Democracy. A total dumpster fire. By 2014, GnR was basically one step above a bar band and they were broke in spite of numerous AFD/CD tours since 2001. The GnR brand was irreparably tarnished. And Axl seemed determined to go down with the ship. Frankly, I'm amazed Axl even agreed to a reunion given how resistant he was to the idea even a year or two prior. What changed?

To see all of these tracks released largely without fanfare just to juice up their tour with Duff/Slash pasted on top of the tracks - it feels really strange, especially given how long Axl labored over them. I don't want to say that they're dumping these songs but that's what it feels like. I wonder if he sees the whole era as a failure that he's washing his hands of. Wasted time. It has to be screwing with his head that he's playing sold out stadiums for the past 7 years after struggling to even fill arenas with nu-guns. Like his life's work for the past 2 decades went up in flames. I wish he'd write a book and explain 1994 onwards - his motivations, dreams, and how he sees the Chinese Democracy project post-reunion. Can he be real about it or will he be in denial and talk about his affection for the DJ Ashba lineup and how Merck/Azoff pulled the album from his hands before it was finished and that's the reason it wasn't perfect.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by RONIN

[Ak1nney]

I believe that deep down Axl wanted the original band to work out, but life/shit/drugs happened and they imploded. I feel like Axl releasing these random tracks now is his way of putting out the CD leftovers that he has the most personal attachment to still. He may have lost interest in some of the leaks people have heard and doesn't feel the need to put them out into the world anymore. I think he also genuinely wanted Duff/Slash to be on them at this point to make them feel more legitimate/complete to him. If that's not the reason, he could have released them years ago.

I believe Axl is really comfortable with the people in Guns N' Roses right now. We all know that Izzy coming back, sticking around, and writing an album was likely never going to happen. In an alternate universe, maybe... but we're incredibly lucky the reunion that we got even happened. Do I wish they'd put out a new album with Slash/Duff writing it with maybe some input from Fortus and Dizzy? Hell yes. Maybe it'll happen still... but I'm not holding my breath. We'll see these next two songs come out and MAYBE a few more.  I feel like more than 6 would be pointless and they should have just put them into an album. I just hope if we do get a new album, it doesn't include these tracks that we've already heard. I don't trust Axl to work fast enough to put lyrics/vocals to 10-12 new songs before he's 70 though.

[jamillos]

53 minutes ago, RONIN said:

The world lost interest in Chinese Democracy after 2002's touring disaster and missed album release date. Axl lost immense credibility and was considered damaged goods at that point. That was the last window of real mainstream success for nu-GnR.  By the time he missed the 2006 release date and threw Merck under the bus, most of us die hards had lost interest - especially since a majority of the tracks had leaked by then.  The tour garnered some positive press and whatever last vestiges of interest in the band died with that missed release date for the album. By 2008, hardly anyone cared outside of the ride or die Axl fans. He just blew it. Lost two amazing lineups (original band, and the bucket/finck band) with just one album to show for all of those wasted years. Then he didn't do any press and then tours nearly a year later when people had long forgotten about Chinese Democracy. A total dumpster fire. By 2014, GnR was basically one step above a bar band and they were broke in spite of numerous AFD/CD tours since 2001. I'm amazed Axl even agreed to a reunion given how resistant he was to the idea even a year or two prior.

To see all of these tracks released largely without fanfare just to juice up their tour with Duff/Slash pasted on top of the tracks - it feels really weird, especially given how long Axl labored over them. I wonder if he sees the whole era as a failure that he's washing his hands of. Wasted time. It has to be screwing with his head when he's playing sold out stadiums for the past 7 years after struggling to even fill arenas with nu-guns. Like his life's work for the past 2 decades went up in flames. I wish he'd write a book and explain 1994 onwards - his motivations, dreams, and how he sees the Chinese Democracy project post-reunion. Can he be real about it or will he be in denial and talk about his soft spot for the DJ Ashba lineup and how Merck or Azoff pulled the album from his hands before it was finished and that's the reason it wasn't perfect.

 

Nice post. I’d only add, though, that I don’t think 2002 was the last year they had a chance to make a big impact. 2006 was still very promising too. If only they released and promoted something. Plus they had a chance even after 2008, but the whole thing suffered from zero promotion and mismanaged development, which led to Axl not wanting to have anything to do with it other than touring the songs. No videos, TV, or magazines with proper interviews. Silence from Axl and an embargo for the hired guns. Yes, he blew it. 

And it doesn’t look too dissimilar in the Reunion era either, by the way. 2016 was grand (including the 2017 continuation in Europe, with worse but still ok Axl). But once again, then it started to get stale and it took them years to do something at least marginally exciting. A DVD would have been appropriate around 2018. They had the material; they had the time. New singles way earlier than in fall 2021. Interviews where they’d finally uncover some of the behind-the-curtain stuff and Axl would open up e.g. about the CD sessions and songs he has on the shelf. Instead, what we got was the same silence from Axl and an embargo for the rest, except Slash’s occasional vague promises (which, to be fair, do come to fruition, albeit with a delay). There’s no PR, as they have no people for it, and apparently neither any intentions in this regard. 

What I’m saying is, they could have made a way bigger impact post 2000 had they done things normally like other bands do. Instead, the same veil of mystery as usual (even in the Reunion era), which may have been kind of cool back in 2002, but now is just lame. And with Axl gradually losing the voice, I mean... they’re not getting any younger, are they. They blew it not because they wouldn’t have the chops anymore or because people wouldn’t be interested. No, they blew it because Axl got butthurt once and chose a total non-promotion/silence/mystery path to be followed ever since. Which, in the world of social media, instant sharing, and dozens of new videos every day, sucks donkey ass. 

[Lies They Tell]

On top of Absurd, Hard Skool, Perhaps and The General, I have no doubt that at least Seven, Soulmonster, Atlas Shrugged, Berlin and State of Grace will also be released at some point. But I'm glad if they also start writing brand new music.

[WhazUp]

9 hours ago, AlterL said:

I said he butchers them, not that he doesn't like them, he might even listen to them from time to time in his own time for all I care, but his own interpretations of those songs are truly not up to standards, not his own, and not to the original solos or past interpretations of them by the other guitarist that have been in this band. Honestly I know it's impossible but I wish Bumblefoot had stuck around, specially considering that the band is doing right now the idea he had all the way back in 2010.

I always personally thought the whole post-2016 hate on Slash's solos on CD tunes can get way overblown on here, like sure every now and then sometimes he can go into shred town but for the most part I have found his solos perfectly serviceable and in songs like Better with Robin's solo I actually really like his own melodic choices going on there

[F*ck Fear]

9 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

It really hasn't 😂

Might not have been to your taste personally, but to say it's been a shit show is a massive overreaction

I'm not tone deaf. The guy struggles to sing every night.

I'll never understand how so many people on here justify shit vocals.

At the end of the day, your willing to spend your hard earned cash for that, that's your choice. But I'm not pretending Axl sounds great.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, WhazUp said:

I always personally thought the whole post-2016 hate on Slash's solos on CD tunes can get way overblown on here, like sure every now and then sometimes he can go into shred town but for the most part I have found his solos perfectly serviceable and in songs like Better with Robin's solo I actually really like his own melodic choices going on there

"Serviceable" is't what I expect from Slash. I want him to move me with his solos, make the solos the standout part of the songs, be their own melodic stories, with exquisite note selection. But I guess those days are over. No problem. 

[jacdaniel]

1 hour ago, WhazUp said:

I always personally thought the whole post-2016 hate on Slash's solos on CD tunes can get way overblown on here, like sure every now and then sometimes he can go into shred town but for the most part I have found his solos perfectly serviceable and in songs like Better with Robin's solo I actually really like his own melodic choices going on there

Yeah I don't get the whole Slash "butchers" CD solos. 

The songs most commonly played are CD and Better and he did fine with those. 

I've heard him doing a good job on TWAT, Prostitute, Sorry. 

It's only really This I love and Street of Dreams that I didn't enjoy 

[jacdaniel]

38 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

"Serviceable" is't what I expect from Slash. I want him to move me with his solos, make the solos the standout part of the songs, be their own melodic stories, with exquisite note selection. But I guess those days are over. No problem. 

Serviceable is fine for songs that you didn't write and aren't your thing. 

Let him write new songs in his own style and you'll get better results. He's proved legendary at that. 

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

Serviceable is fine for songs that you didn't write and aren't your thing. 

Let him write new songs in his own style and you'll get better results. He's proved legendary at that. 

Slash had created absolutely top-notch solos to other songs he hasn't written, so I don't think it is unfair to expect more from him. But it might be unfair to expect that from him now in 2023.

[Sausagebrain]

Chinese Democracy ends now!

[Rovim]

I think there are 2 ways that the Chinese era could come to an end: 

1. when Axl stops releasing tunes from that era and Gn'R is over

2. if Gn'R ever releases a brand new album with brand new songs

[Trin9498]

Post Illusions to 2016 was a matter of Axl getting his mental health in order….glad it worked out. He escaped the me too movement too. For the most, the general public seems to like him now.