Kat Benzova sues GNR/Fernando for copyright infringement and sexual harassment

[BucketEgg]

the ending of this case could be months into the future...

this is such an awkward time for anyone following the band. this thing happens, then the perhaps vinyl will happen, and the other members will go on their solo careers while GnR aren't touring, then there's probably going to be months of silence afterwards regarding non-solo GnR, except instead of usual calm silence, it will be silence with this thing hanging over, and we don't know if some part of the band's management will be restructured or not as an outcome.

Edited November 16, 2023 by BucketEgg

[adamsapple]

I understand both parties speak through their lawyers at this point, but I really can't see Axl treating this as a professional matter only, not at all.

He went public about being abused sexually and his mother not stopping it. Now his surrogate mother Beta is being accused of doing nothing about her son sexually harassing a woman despite knowing about it first hand from the supposed victim.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes, absolutely. However, if it turns out the things Kat said about Fernando and Beta are right, could we be looking at a mental health emergency for Axl and in that possibly the end of the band?

[Rovim]

19 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

I understand both parties speak through their lawyers at this point, but I really can't see Axl treating this as a professional matter only, not at all.

He went public about being abused sexually and his mother not stopping it. Now his surrogate mother Beta is being accused of doing nothing about her son sexually harassing a woman despite knowing about it first hand from the supposed victim.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes, absolutely. However, if it turns out the things Kat said about Fernando and Beta are right, could we be looking at a mental health emergency for Axl and in that possibly the end of the band?

I seriously doubt it. I'm not even going to try to guess how Axl will handle this shit. Too many variables imo, but the end of Gn'R? I'm guessing no way.

[BucketEgg]

48 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

I understand both parties speak through their lawyers at this point, but I really can't see Axl treating this as a professional matter only, not at all.

He went public about being abused sexually and his mother not stopping it. Now his surrogate mother Beta is being accused of doing nothing about her son sexually harassing a woman despite knowing about it first hand from the supposed victim.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes, absolutely. However, if it turns out the things Kat said about Fernando and Beta are right, could we be looking at a mental health emergency for Axl and in that possibly the end of the band?

The band being gone sounds like one possibility, but only in the absolute most worst case scenario where Axl quits the whole music business because it's too much trouble, he's older now and doesn't want to deal with hiring more managing people, and Slash and Duff respect his decision to hop out. If it all turns out to be true and Axl feels like his new family has betrayed his values of what a family should be and removes their connection, I think he will try to keep the band in some way though. What's left for him if he removes his family? Piles of money, all his possessions, and other connections, like his brother and sister, and the band.  Maybe he'll cling onto it.

But I think with a much more mature and sober Slash and Duff around, they're going to help Axl out in one way or another if things fall apart for him personally.

Edited November 16, 2023 by BucketEgg
deleted tangent section

[allwaystired]

I keep coming back to the fact that money seems the absolute be all and end all of GNR.

That seems to be the thing they value most these days out if anything. And the continued pursuit of money never leads towards the right decisions being made morally or ethically. So whether anything has gone on or not......money will talk. 

[Voodoochild]

3 minutes ago, BucketEgg said:

But I think with a much more mature and sober Slash and Duff around, they're going to help Axl out in one way for another if things fall apart for him personally.

As Duff and Slash have their own management, I don't think they will deal with it unless it affects some of the bands planing. It's Axl's mess to deal with, it's "the band" management but only for Axl's share of the entity, as far as I know. There's a reason why Duff and Slash didn't want to be part of this same umbrella, I guess.

But in a personal level, for sure they must be talking to Axl about it. Informally, they would want to know how Axl will deal with it. I have no clue what's gonna happen, but I can't see how keeping Fernando on it wouldn't make things worse.

[Draguns]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Just to clarify regarding copyright, it is stated in Kat's lawsuit that she doesn't claim copyright of the photos she took while she worked under a written contract (which explicitly said that GN'R would own all rights, including copyright, "in perpetuity"). She claims copyright of the pictures she took during the long periods she worked without a written contract (and which seem to consist the vast majority of her work for GN'R) with emphasis to 145 photos that she registered with the US Copyright Office after her working relationship with GN'R had ended (I suppose because she has a stronger case with these 145 photos).

GN'R claims that since she agreed upon those stipulations by signing written contracts, it means that they also apply to the periods she worked under an "oral agreement" (because, I guess, "families don't need contracts" - ridiculous).

 

 

In the U.S., oral agreements can be viewed as a contract. If she signed written contracts that had previous stipulations and both parties agreed to them again via a conversation then it can be upheld in court. In my opinion, both parties should have worked on a new contract rather than based on assumptions. 

[DeNfr]

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, adamsapple said:

I understand both parties speak through their lawyers at this point, but I really can't see Axl treating this as a professional matter only, not at all.

He went public about being abused sexually and his mother not stopping it. Now his surrogate mother Beta is being accused of doing nothing about her son sexually harassing a woman despite knowing about it first hand from the supposed victim.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes, absolutely. However, if it turns out the things Kat said about Fernando and Beta are right, could we be looking at a mental health emergency for Axl and in that possibly the end of the band?

No.

And if it was Yes, then there's much bigger questions on Axls mental state that he is make or break without the Lebeis family. Yes they are extremely close, but he should be able to function with or without them. And I don't wish that the Lebeis family are thrown out of his life, despite everything they do seem to keep him happy. 

But short answer is no, this is not the end of the band.

[G-Money]

I can't help but think if Duff "Girl Dad/Kickboxer" McKagan walked up on any of these incidents, it could have blown up. But then again, with Slash and Duff having their own managers, this may never touch them at all. If Fernando did it, I hope he gets due punishment, and I hope the band doesn't split over finding new management.

[©GnrPersia]

35 minutes ago, DeNfr said:

I'm impressed 

9 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said:

I'm sure Axl is having a BBQ party with him one of these days in his Malibu mansion cheering him up like "yo my man, whole my life I've been accused of abusing women, don't worry son I got your back"

Basically that'll be the mood in his camp ^

Edited November 16, 2023 by ©GnrPersia

[there is no dana only zool]

What items, etc., used Kat's images that she wasn't given credit for?  Honestly the first thing I thought of when I read her claim of not receiving credit for things was possibly not being tagged in social media posts by GN'R using pics she took.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

3 hours ago, adamsapple said:

I understand both parties speak through their lawyers at this point, but I really can't see Axl treating this as a professional matter only, not at all.

He went public about being abused sexually and his mother not stopping it. Now his surrogate mother Beta is being accused of doing nothing about her son sexually harassing a woman despite knowing about it first hand from the supposed victim.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes, absolutely. However, if it turns out the things Kat said about Fernando and Beta are right, could we be looking at a mental health emergency for Axl and in that possibly the end of the band?

Kat is not a little boy, though. She's a woman and I don't think Axl's sympathies extend to adult female victims of sexual abuse. Remember the "Free Mike Tyson" T-shirt he used to wear on stage? It was right around the time he was doing interviews about having been sexually abused himself as a child. Yet he still sided with a convicted rapist in a case where the victim was an 18-year-old woman. I assume you know that Axl himself has also been accused of sexual and other type of abuse by a number of women. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fernando has Axl's full support regardless of whether Kat is able to win her case.

[Silence]

You would think Fernando could have any girl from any city more or less.

[gnfnr2k]

6 minutes ago, Silence said:

You would think Fernando could have any girl from any city more or less.

That is thing with people like him.

They dont care about the any girl they can get.

its about the ones who say no. People like him are like how dare you say no to me, dont you know who I am type thing.

[ZoSoRose]

8 minutes ago, Silence said:

You would think Fernando could have any girl from any city more or less.

Ok, Fernando 

[evilfacelessturtle]

16 hours ago, Avillart said:

Yeah, you were not even there but you know better than me what happened LOL

"I saw a ghost, guys! I was there, so no amount of science or common sense can disprove it!"

Let me guess, you're one of those guys who thinks waitresses awkwardly smiling at your dirty jokes is because they're genuinely happy. That's "body language" for you. Smiling means happiness!

I can't help but notice the complete lack of a response to any of the arguments I made, so I accept your concession.

[Silence]

56 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Ok, Fernando 

Seriously . Ive seen the guy who creeps up the aisle way handing out VIP passes to girls. He is well known.

[Silence]

9 hours ago, DeNfr said:

Thank you for this. I love Axl dearly, but you killed it! That photo. I cannot stop laughing.

[invisible_rose]

 

13 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Kat is not a little boy, though. She's a woman and I don't think Axl's sympathies extend to adult female victims of sexual abuse. Remember the "Free Mike Tyson" T-shirt he used to wear on stage? It was right around the time he was doing interviews about having been sexually abused himself as a child. Yet he still sided with a convicted rapist in a case where the victim was an 18-year-old woman. I assume you know that Axl himself has also been accused of sexual and other type of abuse by a number of women. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fernando has Axl's full support regardless of whether Kat is able to win her case.

You saved me typing out the exact same thing. I share those exact views.

[Blackstar]

14 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Kat is not a little boy, though. She's a woman and I don't think Axl's sympathies extend to adult female victims of sexual abuse. Remember the "Free Mike Tyson" T-shirt he used to wear on stage? It was right around the time he was doing interviews about having been sexually abused himself as a child. Yet he still sided with a convicted rapist in a case where the victim was an 18-year-old woman. I assume you know that Axl himself has also been accused of sexual and other type of abuse by a number of women. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fernando has Axl's full support regardless of whether Kat is able to win her case.

That's all true, but it could be different now not only because Axl is older, but also (and mostly) because Kat was a member of the GN'R crew.

[DoMw94]

Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but the likes of Slash, Meegan, Susan etc. have all unfollowed Kat on IG in the last couple of days

[Blackstar]

8 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but the likes of Slash, Meegan, Susan etc. have all unfollowed Kat on IG in the last couple of days

I'm not sure if Slash followed her (he generally doesn't follow many accounts from the GN'R camp).

Del, Dizzy, Richard and Melissa still follow her.

[DoMw94]

10 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I'm not sure if Slash followed her (he generally doesn't follow many accounts from the GN'R camp).

Del, Dizzy, Richard and Melissa still follow her.

Hadn't looked myself, just going off what I saw on Reddit

[DeNfr]

3 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

Hadn't looked myself, just going off what I saw on Reddit

 

probably true then