SoulMonster Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 22 minutes ago, BucketEgg said: Data. It's all about digital data that makes the difference. Knock off artists and inspired artists are human, and do not take digital data. They take other data for their brain, but that's not legally enforcable and doesn't function the way digital data does (you can't copy and paste and delete your brain data. It is not stored in servers. You can't license your neurons.) The machines do not see, they take digital data, which is how machines are vulnerable to data modification in ways inspired artists are not. https://venturebeat.com/ai/nightshade-the-free-tool-that-poisons-ai-models-is-now-available-for-artists-to-use/ https://amt-lab.org/reviews/2023/11/nightshade-a-defensive-tool-for-artists-against-ai-art-generators An artist taking inspiration from another is not a machine, and is not taking digital data. They're using their brain data. There's the aspect of controlling digital data. And there's alternatives to not piss people off, like asking for permission for using digital data. I find your attempt at distinguishing between "digital data" and normal physical artwork, and computer memory and "brain data" irrelevant. In the end it is art being created at least partly influences, inspired, from other art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: The imagination lies with the artist, regardless of whether he uses a paintbrush or an AI software. He still needs to have the vision for the art, and then be proficient in the software to insert his own individuality in the result. For examples, you could train the AI model on previous AI works you have created, thus training a model to create future artwork that comes with your signature style. Again, Ai art is much more complex than simply asking the software to "create me some art". It is about providing as detailed information as required to have full control of the output, just as you would with a paintbrush, infusing the result with your artistic vision. yes, and like I said, it's a neat tool, an instrument. human beings are more than just instruments so it, so far, cannot replace humans when it comes to things like art, it can compliment an artist's ability, but there is a process here which is unique to what the human mind can invent, come up with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 30 minutes ago, Jw224 said: "skills in AI arts" You don't think you can get proficient in using software like Dall-E and Midjourney and that as a result you will have AI visual artists that are better at realizing their artistic vision using the medium of AI than others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketEgg Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I find your attempt at distinguishing between "digital data" and normal physical artwork, and computer memory and "brain data" irrelevant. In the end it is art being created at least partly influences, inspired, from other art. It's not irrelevant in terms of why people are pissed off about their data being used without permission. If you don't want to distinguish in the ways the physical world and digital world differ, that's on you. But many artists feel the difference between another artist being inspired, and their data being taken, and they're angry at one, and not the other, Edited January 23 by BucketEgg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 minute ago, Rovim said: yes, and like I said, it's a neat tool, an instrument. human beings are more than just instruments so it, so far, cannot replace humans when it comes to things like art, it can compliment an artist's ability, but there is a process here which is unique to what the human mind can invent, come up with. Which is why it is just a tool. Like the paintbrush. It doesn't create anything on its own. It relies on the direction of the artist in the form of text prompts, the parameters used, and finally the data models it has been trained upon and which it will use. A bad artist will create bad art, regardless of using a pen and paper of an AI software. But to great artists it can be a valuable tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 minute ago, BucketEgg said: It's not irrelevant in terms of why people are pissed off about their data being used without permission. Because you don't ask for permission to use other's art as inspiration when you create your own art. No one is demanding this from conventional artists, hence it makes no sense to demand it from AI visual artists. Whether the data is stored in RAM or neurons is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketEgg Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, SoulMonster said: Because you don't ask for permission to use other's art as inspiration when you create your own art. No one is demanding this from conventional artists, hence it makes no sense to demand it from AI visual artists. Whether the data is stored in RAM or neurons is irrelevant. They're not pissed that people are being inspired. They're annoyed that their data is being taken. "Whether the data is stored in RAM or neurons is irrelevant. " I'm not going around going Yes it is, only for you to say, no it isn't, then I say yes it is, and then you say no it isn't, and it goes on and on. For artists' feelings, it is. The data is what they're protecting with tools like Nightshade and Glaze. https://glaze.cs.uchicago.edu/what-is-glaze.html leaves visuals intact, modifies the data. They're not protecting the visuals or artstyle, that can't be protected. The data is what they care about. That's why I say it's relevant in what they're angry about, because digital data is the thing they're protecting. They're still letting anyone still look at their artwork and be inspired with their eyes and brain data. But they do not want the digital data to be taken and used without permission. If you don't want to differentiate between digital and physical data, that's your belief, but your beliefs of whether things are digital or physical being irrelevant are at odds with artists believing digital and physical data are different, and artists who care about making sure only their digital data is protected but still letting anyone see their artworks and store data in their brain. Edited January 23 by BucketEgg glazed link 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Could this be...a proper mix and master of The General (and of the other "new songs", while they're at it )? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, BucketEgg said: They're not pissed that people are being inspired. They're annoyed that their data is being taken. "Whether the data is stored in RAM or neurons is irrelevant. " I'm not going around going Yes it is, only for you to say, no it isn't, then I say yes it is, and then you say no it isn't, and it goes on and on. For artists' feelings, it is. The data is what they're protecting with tools like Nightshade and Glaze. They're not protecting the visuals or artstyle, that can't be protected. The data is what they care about. That's why I say it's relevant in what they're angry about, because digital data is the thing they're protecting. They're still letting anyone still look at their artwork and be inspired with their eyes and brain data. But they do not want the digital data to be taken. If you don't want to differentiate between digital and physical data, that's your belief, but your beliefs of whether things are digital or physical being irrelevant are at odds with artists believing digital and physical data are different.. I think the artists who protest again AI arts "taking" their data are not fully able to see that this is just how it has always been, only that the data is stored digitally and not neurologically. In the end, the result is the same: Art inspired by other art, but not to the extent where it is plagiarizing or infringing. And again, I understand the emotions, of course, after all they see this a big competition coming where all the years spent honing their craft is becoming less relevant, but the argument that AI arts is fundamentally different in "taking" or "stealing" or "using" their art, that I don't buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CAFC Nick Posted January 23 Popular Post Share Posted January 23 8 minutes ago, EvH said: Could this be...a proper mix and master of The General (and of the other "new songs", while they're at it )? No. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dummy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Well, nothing happened in New oceanland... Plans changed Soon was not the word 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 hours ago, Blackstar said: Going by the narrow definition of what consists creation (making something original), AI doesn't create art (or anything else) nor is it a tool for creating art. AI is something new, so the debate about whether it can be used as a creative tool is new as well. But the debate, in general, about what can be considered a product of creativity and, by extension, art goes way back and it applies to a lot of other stuff, including modern visual art. Does someone who relies on the use of existing original works/concepts to make something new create art? Or is it just derivative? For example: Does a collage consist art? Did Andy Warhol make art? And how about the Kostabi painting that became the artwork of UYI? Or the GN'R lithographs that use classic paintings, movie posters etc. as basis replacing some key elements in the originals with GN'R themed stuff (skeletons, skulls, roses etc). I suppose it depends on whether there is an artistic purpose and process. A collage made of family photos is not the same as a collage made by a visual artist. And I think it's not much different with AI. I hope you can include in your resume all the knowledge you've been gathering here in this message board about arts, US legal system and international copyright law. Maybe a bit of music composing and sound engineering too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelex95 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/21/2024 at 10:04 PM, Gordon Comstock said: Maybe you're reading my posts as more 'serious' than they are, idk. A cheap video for a throwaway song really isn't a big deal, but it's all we've got to discuss so that's what we're doing. You think I'm imagining the sloppy details in AI animation? Take a closer look at the clip then. There's some weirdo's on here who jump on any criticism as 'whining' or 'hating'. The clipping in The General should've been addressed before it was released, but those who point it out are 'bitching'. Sloppy AI shit from a band that absolutely could afford professional animators deserves criticism, but those who point it out are 'whining'. Give me a fucking break I agree with you but I think you’re contradicting yourself a bit, on one hand you understand it’s a throw away song but you think they could invest in serious animation. Well if the song it’s a throw out it makes senso not to waste too much money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 24 minutes ago, Voodoochild said: I hope you can include in your resume all the knowledge you've been gathering here in this message board about arts, US legal system and international copyright law. Maybe a bit of music composing and sound engineering too. And psychology and human nature 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said: I didn't say that everything has been done before in exactly the same way. The point is that humans draw inspiration and yes, even crib things to repurpose them, in a similar way that AI does. You might want to take a course on the invention of Jazz then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonizedmind Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Is it dropping at midnight LA time then? Or some random during the day point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 22 minutes ago, colonizedmind said: Is it dropping at midnight LA time then? Or some random during the day point? I would guess at either midnight (eastern or pacific) or at a random time at some point throughout the 24th. Seems like it's just a video, possibly announcement, so midnight local time (a la spotify releases) doesn't seem likely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starter Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Nothing I can find in Aus and it’s nearly 2am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Blackstar Posted January 23 Popular Post Share Posted January 23 24 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said: He/She should write a book. Been telling him/her for a long time. @BlackstarPlease clarify your gender situation so that I know how to address you. Thank you. My gender is the same as my sex (which you can see under my avatar on the left). (I thought my gender was known to everyone after all this time ) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledge Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Yeah if it was a new music drop it'd be out by now in Australia. Announcements/videos are after Fernando has had his coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jw224 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Why would anyone think it was a music drop? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZODIAC Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Blackstar said: My gender is the same as my sex (which you can see under my avatar on the left). (I thought my gender was known to everyone after all this time ) You can't be sure enough these days... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalis Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said: He/She should write a book. Been telling him/her for a long time. @BlackstarPlease clarify your gender situation so that I know how to address you. Thank you. We should hold a book title contest. "The mysterious GNR vault and other fairy tales" Edited January 23 by Lethalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalis Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 35 minutes ago, ZODIAC said: You can't be sure enough these days... 😉 Last I checked this isn't a dating site. So why care Or is everyone shocked a woman would spend so much time here? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalis Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Jw224 said: Why would anyone think it was a music drop? Because they are f'n desperate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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