For a few bars more: A little rant about songwriting and guitars re the "new" songs

[adamsapple]

Hard Skool - with a bit more heart and attention to detail, this could have been a GREAT one, but the ‘copy, paste, repeat‘ way they put this together gives it a bit of a plastic pop flavor. Still my favourite from the leftovers though, even though the musical theme somehow reminds me of „Dead Horse“ from UYI 1.

Perhaps - love that Carole King style piano riff - but again: copy, paste, repeat. Why? This one screams for a rock and roll piano solo, but instead it got some rather uninspired guitaring. I mean that’s SLASH right there on stage, right? Will you please give the motherfucker a few bars more to actually play some fucking guitar for fucks sake?

The General - dark I can reflect, but this one’s going nowhere for me. No release, no climax...or maybe I just don’t get it. I feel this song comes from an honest place and I respect that, but everytime he sings „Daddy don’t…“ a part of my soul just shuts off. Times are dark enough already. Survivors don’t whine. They inspire and lead by example. Back to the drawing board I would have said. Needs a twist, a moral, a conclusion, something...anything. I understand it's just a b-side, but given the topic I think this one deserves more and better in the composition and songwriting department.

Absurd – are you listening to me mister security guard? That song – gone!

Monsters – jury’s still out on this one, waiting for the official release and a live performance. But so far, this one sounds promising.

Five „new“ songs in and still no guitar solo that gets me excited, makes me close my eyes, bang my head, tap my foot, drive too fast, drink too much or grab my guitar and pretend I’m a rockstar. Where’s the soul? Where’s the spirit?

Stop messing around with copy and paste in Pro Tools. Stop contemplating your fucking „gear“ and „tone“ and get to the actual matter of things. It's GNR for fucks sake not some hipster bullshit band. Give me some proper guitar solos that make my jaw drop you lazy old farts.

I really want a new album but if it sounds anything like these „new“ songs, I won't be running to buy it. I'm happy they do perform "new" songs in concert and release them. I just hope none of them ends up on a future album, at least not in their current form or shape.

Whatever happened to the art of songwriting.

Thoughts?

[Jakey Styley]

Given the nature of how these songs came about, they're always going to have that copy paste sound to them.

[adamsapple]

13 minutes ago, Jakey Styley said:

Given the nature of how these songs came about, they're always going to have that copy paste sound to them.

Can see that for the studio product, but for me the songs lack most in the meat and potatoes department.

Having different musicians re-record parts is one thing, not having a well rounded composition in the first place is another.

[Axls_Moustache_Rules]

2 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Five „new“ songs in and still no guitar solo that gets me excited, makes me close my eyes, bang my head, tap my foot, drive too fast, drink too much or grab my guitar and pretend I’m a rockstar. Where’s the soul? Where’s the spirit?

Stop messing around with copy and paste in Pro Tools. Stop contemplating your fucking „gear“ and „tone“ and get to the actual matter of things. It's GNR for fucks sake not some hipster bullshit band. Give me some proper guitar solos that make my jaw drop you lazy old farts.

I have never EVER read a more fitting post ..

THIS IS LOVE

 

 

 

M U L L E T 

[DaneisKing1389]

The fact that some of these sound like a verse/chorus doubled to make a full song doesn’t necessarily excite me for more of this.

[twistoflemon21]

They're good songs for the most part, I don't like that Absurd, Perhaps and The General's second verses are the same as the first. 

[t-p-d-a]

Almost every 

[Gaanzer]

Hey, hey... Aye aye!

[Sisyphus]

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Hard Skool - with a bit more heart and attention to detail, this could have been a GREAT one, but the ‘copy, paste, repeat‘ way they put this together gives it a bit of a plastic pop flavor. Still my favourite from the leftovers though, even though the musical theme somehow reminds me of „Dead Horse“ from UYI 1.

Perhaps - love that Carole King style piano riff - but again: copy, paste, repeat. Why? This one screams for a rock and roll piano solo, but instead it got some rather uninspired guitaring. I mean that’s SLASH right there on stage, right? Will you please give the motherfucker a few bars more to actually play some fucking guitar for fucks sake?

The General - dark I can reflect, but this one’s going nowhere for me. No release, no climax...or maybe I just don’t get it. I feel this song comes from an honest place and I respect that, but everytime he sings „Daddy don’t…“ a part of my soul just shuts off. Times are dark enough already. Survivors don’t whine. They inspire and lead by example. Back to the drawing board I would have said. Needs a twist, a moral, a conclusion, something...anything. I understand it's just a b-side, but given the topic I think this one deserves more and better in the composition and songwriting department.

Absurd – are you listening to me mister security guard? That song – gone!

Monsters – jury’s still out on this one, waiting for the official release and a live performance. But so far, this one sounds promising.

Five „new“ songs in and still no guitar solo that gets me excited, makes me close my eyes, bang my head, tap my foot, drive too fast, drink too much or grab my guitar and pretend I’m a rockstar. Where’s the soul? Where’s the spirit?

Stop messing around with copy and paste in Pro Tools. Stop contemplating your fucking „gear“ and „tone“ and get to the actual matter of things. It's GNR for fucks sake not some hipster bullshit band. Give me some proper guitar solos that make my jaw drop you lazy old farts.

I really want a new album but if it sounds anything like these „new“ songs, I won't be running to buy it. I'm happy they do perform "new" songs in concert and release them. I just hope none of them ends up on a future album, at least not in their current form or shape.

Whatever happened to the art of songwriting.

Thoughts?

I love your review and the analytical approach but I personally absolutely love everything they've done so far. I do wish there was more variety in terms of verses in Perhaps and Monsters. The General too. I've always felt the verses are the strongest part of Axl's songwriting. I'm not bothered by the guitar work but it maybe isn't as memorable as it could have been. 

I'll be really disappointed if Perhaps, The General and Monsters appear on vinyl only. I want all of these songs on a CD. Including Hard Skool and Absurd. I have the EP but I would really love to have all of those songs on one disc.

I don't get the Absurd hate. I personally really love that song. I'd love it if they experimented more with that kind of sound. Any sound really. There's just something magical in those Guns N' Roses songs for me. I keep reading people saying "this is filler or that is filler" or "I don't like this song and that song". I respect that, don't get me wrong. But for me they're all great. There's not a single GN'R song I dislike.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Sisyphus

[Cosmo]

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Hard Skool - with a bit more heart and attention to detail, this could have been a GREAT one, but the ‘copy, paste, repeat‘ way they put this together gives it a bit of a plastic pop flavor. Still my favourite from the leftovers though, even though the musical theme somehow reminds me of „Dead Horse“ from UYI 1

This one doesn't speak to me at all. Shotgun Blues-level track. And the whole school theme, with the bells and that artwork, just makes me cringe.

 

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Perhaps - love that Carole King style piano riff - but again: copy, paste, repeat. Why? This one screams for a rock and roll piano solo, but instead it got some rather uninspired guitaring. I mean that’s SLASH right there on stage, right? Will you please give the motherfucker a few bars more to actually play some fucking guitar for fucks sake.

Probably the strongest one so far. Really enjoy it. But I agree the solo is so meh it's insulting.  They should have extended the song in order to have a more epic solo.

 

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

The General - dark I can reflect, but this one’s going nowhere for me. No release, no climax...or maybe I just don’t get it. I feel this song comes from an honest place and I respect that, but everytime he sings „Daddy don’t…“ a part of my soul just shuts off. Times are dark enough already. Survivors don’t whine. They inspire and lead by example. Back to the drawing board I would have said. Needs a twist, a moral, a conclusion, something...anything. I understand it's just a b-side, but given the topic I think this one deserves more and better in the composition and songwriting department

This is where is completely disagree.

"Times are dark enough already" - art is a reflection of the times. Music isn't supposed to make you happy. It isn't supposed to brighten your day. Music is art. It's supposed to make you think. Sometimes, it's dark, sometimes it's not. Times have always been dark. There was no period of humanity this couldn't be stated. You should listen to some doom metal. Makes this song feel like a walk in the park, in comparison.\

"Survivors don’t whine. They inspire and lead by example." - This is such a problematic phrase, I don't even know how to begin here. Survivors do whatever they want. They do whatever helps them move on. It's not about leading or giving example. It's about them, not the others. When you go through something horrible, you have all the right in the world to put yourself in first place, to think about your own well being. Music is the form of expression Axl and co, and so many other people, use to do this. It's therapy. Making music about traumatic events is nothing new, and it's completely viable.

 

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Absurd – are you listening to me mister security guard? That song – gone!

Agree - it's horrible. Nothing else to say here. Trash.

 

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Monsters – jury’s still out on this one, waiting for the official release and a live performance. But so far, this one sounds promising.

So far, one of my favourites, along with Perhaps. Great track.

 

15 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Five „new“ songs in and still no guitar solo that gets me excited, makes me close my eyes, bang my head, tap my foot, drive too fast, drink too much or grab my guitar and pretend I’m a rockstar. Where’s the soul? Where’s the spirit?

Stop messing around with copy and paste in Pro Tools. Stop contemplating your fucking „gear“ and „tone“ and get to the actual matter of things. It's GNR for fucks sake not some hipster bullshit band. Give me some proper guitar solos that make my jaw drop you lazy old farts.

I really want a new album but if it sounds anything like these „new“ songs, I won't be running to buy it. I'm happy they do perform "new" songs in concert and release them. I just hope none of them ends up on a future album, at least not in their current form or shape.

Whatever happened to the art of songwriting.

Thoughts?

These songs were not written by the current line-up, and were mostly written by one or two members of the line-up from 20 years ago, and shown to Axl after it was almost finished, for him to record vocals. This is barely a product of teamwork and group songwriting. It reflects on the music. I agree, it would be great to have something that was actually done by a group of musicians working together in a studio.

 

So far, I'd say:

Great - Perhaps and Monsters

Good - The General

Weak - Hardskool

Horrible - Absurd

[Towelie]

2 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

There's not a single GN'R song I dislike.

My World?

[Sisyphus]

42 minutes ago, Towelie said:

My World?

Love it. I wish it was longer though. 

[Its Tino]

I truly understand everyone’s perspective. I don’t get hung up on it tho. I enjoy the tunes as they are and the more time goes by I appreciate them all more. 

[Coma16]

8 hours ago, twistoflemon21 said:

They're good songs for the most part, I don't like that Absurd, Perhaps and The General's second verses are the same as the first. 

Doesn't the first verse say forget and the second verse say forgive? Cleary different lol

[22frets]

I understand the hate for Absurd as a song but it's got some killer Slash guitar on it. 

[jacdaniel]

I’ve just accepted that the bands creative output at this point is Axls solo songs and they are not for me at all.  All 5 songs imo are either weak or horrible. 

I’m still yet to hear a proper guitar riff. Hate the copy/paste Frankenstein approach also. 
 

Even the lyrics. Everything seems to be some kind of resentful lyrics towards someone who wronged him. 

[Tom2112]

I think the general needed an extra tweak. Like the op said, it just doesn't have any lift... Like all the songs so far there is plenty of good in them, but the biggest issue is this copy/paste approach. I guess there's no rule saying a song HAS to have different verses... But I guess we are tuned to expect it, and for the songs to build and add different things ad they go on. Compared to Chinese these songs are quite underproduced, but not in the way we would have hoped.

Perhaps

Hardskool

Monsters

The general 

Absurd (different more traditional Axl vocals this could have been the best track)

[jimisbatman]

8 hours ago, Cosmo said:

This one doesn't speak to me at all. Shotgun Blues-level track. And the whole school theme, with the bells and that artwork, just makes me cringe.

 

Probably the strongest one so far. Really enjoy it. But I agree the solo is so meh it's insulting.  They should have extended the song in order to have a more epic solo.

 

This is where is completely disagree.

"Times are dark enough already" - art is a reflection of the times. Music isn't supposed to make you happy. It isn't supposed to brighten your day. Music is art. It's supposed to make you think. Sometimes, it's dark, sometimes it's not. Times have always been dark. There was no period of humanity this couldn't be stated. You should listen to some doom metal. Makes this song feel like a walk in the park, in comparison.\

"Survivors don’t whine. They inspire and lead by example." - This is such a problematic phrase, I don't even know how to begin here. Survivors do whatever they want. They do whatever helps them move on. It's not about leading or giving example. It's about them, not the others. When you go through something horrible, you have all the right in the world to put yourself in first place, to think about your own well being. Music is the form of expression Axl and co, and so many other people, use to do this. It's therapy. Making music about traumatic events is nothing new, and it's completely viable.

 

Agree - it's horrible. Nothing else to say here. Trash.

 

So far, one of my favourites, along with Perhaps. Great track.

 

These songs were not written by the current line-up, and were mostly written by one or two members of the line-up from 20 years ago, and shown to Axl after it was almost finished, for him to record vocals. This is barely a product of teamwork and group songwriting. It reflects on the music. I agree, it would be great to have something that was actually done by a group of musicians working together in a studio.

 

So far, I'd say:

Great - Perhaps and Monsters

Good - The General

Weak - Hardskool

Horrible - Absurd

Agree with almost everything here........ However, never got the Shotgun Blues criticisms. When I cull the illusions to one disc it always features. Anyhow, loved your post. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by jimisbatman

[Free Bird]

2 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

I’ve just accepted that the bands creative output at this point is Axls solo songs and they are not for me at all.  All 5 songs imo are either weak or horrible. 

I’m still yet to hear a proper guitar riff. Hate the copy/paste Frankenstein approach also. 
 

Even the lyrics. Everything seems to be some kind of resentful lyrics towards someone who wronged him. 

Well that guitar riff before and during the bridge from Monsters is pretty dope imo...

[jimisbatman]

2 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Well that guitar riff before and during the bridge from Monsters is pretty dope imo...

Yeah it is. I like the song, but definitely interested in hearing pre slash/Duff version.

I listen to the new Perhaps in my bastardization CDII playlist, but also love the demo more. 

[ShadowOfTheWave]

I disagree that The General needed a "conclusion", these are Axl's honest feelings about his abuse. Raw honesty has always been his lyrical strongpoint imo, trying to add other elements just for the sake of making the song more tough or heroic would detract from that.

[Voodoochild]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that this line “Survivors don’t whine“ is disgusting. 

[Blackstar]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:28 PM, Cosmo said:

These songs were not written by the current line-up, and were mostly written by one or two members of the line-up from 20 years ago, and shown to Axl after it was almost finished, for him to record vocals.

Not all of them. Hard Skool and Perhaps appear to be mostly Axl songs.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Blackstar

[denin]

On 11/11/2023 at 8:41 PM, jacdaniel said:

I’m still yet to hear a proper guitar riff. Hate the copy/paste Frankenstein approach also. 
 

Even the lyrics. Everything seems to be some kind of resentful lyrics towards someone who wronged him. 

The copy/paste, as people point out, comes with the territory. We're talking material that's been ongoing for 25+ years.

CD was a bit like an internet restoration of a film that had crucial scenes existing only on low-quality VHS. Even with clean-up, the quality skips around. Insult to injury, Axl himself was the superfan leading the effort, which meant including a bit of everything.

The lyrics are definitely lacking. Monsters is lyrically TWAT-lite. The usual complaints, the bridge ending with a defiant "I've got nothing else to do!" Man needs to have priorities.

The General has a throughline and a purpose, but as OP said, it doesn't evolve to much. A bit surprised there's no Shackler's Revenge demon baritone to be heard.

And neither CD nor Riad is anywhere near Civil War, even if they are similar thematically. Axl's tweets show more effort nowadays than many of his lyrics.

[Blackstar]

I wonder how much of the copy/paste criticism is due to us knowing how these songs have been made before we hear them. We're kind of prepared and "programmed" to hear them as a product of copy and paste. Aside from the repetition of verses on Perhaps etc., would we be able to tell that the songs have a "copy and paste" sound if we heard them without knowing anything about them?

Edited November 13, 2023 by Blackstar