Dave Abbruzzese says he bowed out of NuGnR "for the sake of Axl's ability to continue to be a creative force"

[Blackstar]

New interview:

https://www.songfacts.com/blog/interviews/dave-abbruzzese-ex-pearl-jam

The GN'R part:

Songfacts: What do you recall about your experience working with Guns N' Roses?

Abbruzzese: The Guns thing was tough. Axl [Rose] and I became familiar with one another through nightly phone calls for months before we actually met and played music together. It was a tough time for me because I had quite a bit of soul poisoning from the way my manager handled my termination from Pearl Jam. I was leery of entering the big machine again because of it. Things were moving along well until I spoke to the G n' R management regarding my opinion that the new music might be better suited to an Axl solo album rather than a G n' R album.

Doug Smith [David probably means Doug Goldstein], the Guns' manager at the time, told me that the management and the label had a plan of letting the album we were making be the catalyst for getting Axl to reunite with Slash. The plan was to let him fail and the hope was that this failure would inspire him to reunite with Slash and get the big train back on the tracks. When I heard this I was forced to choose between informing Axl about it or just bowing out. I felt that if I told him of their plan it would destroy what little faith he had in the machine.

So I opted to take one on the chin and sacrifice my new friendship for the sake of Axl's ability to continue to be a creative force. It was a difficult decision but ultimately one that I am glad I made. I love that guy and I didn't want to be responsible for ruining the chance of him and the band continuing to make music for their fans that had waited so patiently for so long for G n' R to get back to it.

[Dean]

He’s always come across really well in the interviews I’ve seen/read. A class act. 

[Blackstar]

Two earlier interviews with Dave talking about Axl/GN'R (for those who haven't watched/read them):

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5240-2020-10-18-12-09-2020-d-podcast-interviews-with-david-abbruzzese

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8033-2023-02-06-2020-d-podcast-interview-with-david-abbruzzese

 

 

[Rindmelon]

12 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Doug Smith [David probably means Doug Goldstein], the Guns' manager at the time, told me that the management and the label had a plan of letting the album we were making be the catalyst for getting Axl to reunite with Slash. The plan was to let him fail and the hope was that this failure would inspire him to reunite with Slash and get the big train back on the tracks.

There's been claims of this before but that was from Merk and Doc era's if I remember right. This is the first time off the top of my head that ive heard that plan being tied to the Goldstein era

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, Rindmelon said:

There's been claims of this before but that was from Merk and Doc era's if I remember right. This is the first time off the top of my head that ive heard that plan being tied to the Goldstein era

In his other interviews Dave Abbruzzese didn't describe it so clearly as a plan, but more like something Doug Goldstein and the label expected to happen.

[KeyserSoze]

yeahhhhhh right. It sounds like he stopped getting called and had to call Goldstein to figure out what was up and has somehow spun it to he said the music would be better as a solo album lol 

[Rayno]

15 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

yeahhhhhh right. It sounds like he stopped getting called and had to call Goldstein to figure out what was up and has somehow spun it to he said the music would be better as a solo album lol 

No, it doesn't sound like that at all.

Edited January 10 by Rayno

[Tom2112]

19 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

yeahhhhhh right. It sounds like he stopped getting called and had to call Goldstein to figure out what was up and has somehow spun it to he said the music would be better as a solo album lol 

Yeah it definitely doesn't sound like the label wanted one of their most successful bands to reunite and make them a boatload of cash.

What part of this story is new? We all knew the labels interest in the record and where they really wanted to take things. I think they eventually gave up though around the time of the "Mr Rose can finance his recording sessions" statement. I actually love that they failed to push him into it. 

Also no surprise the spineless Doug OR any manager for that matter would be working with the label hoping for big cash paydays 

[KeyserSoze]

He may well be telling the truth in this case, but I'm in the Pearl Jam world and Dave has always been a bit of an emotional charity case when it comes to his version of events and retelling stories. I think its a good tell that when PJ was combusting internally and NONE of the members wanted to even be around each other, even on stage, he somehow got the shortest end of the stick and was kicked. All of the drummers have come back and collaborated with PJ, even recently due to Matt Cameron getting covid, but guess who hasn't and won't? Dave A. Drummers at the RNRHOF?? All the ones on the albums, even Dave Krusen. Dave A on the other hand? Not even asked to appear.

What has Dave A done since Pearl Jam besides this story that would define his career on his resume, other than "I was Pearl Jam's drummer when they we're the biggest band in the world..." and arguably the best drummer thats been in the band, period. 

Eddie Vedder has grown immensely since 1994, as has Axl Rose. Axl squashed the beef with Slash, Duff, and Adler, while Izzy is still pending. Same situation with Eddie and Dave A. 

But if a fully mature Eddie Vedder ain't calling Dave A back in the 2020's, I can only imagine what happened between Axl and Dave in the 90's. 

12 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

What part of this story is new? We all knew the labels interest in the record and where they really wanted to take things. I think they eventually gave up though around the time of the "Mr Rose can finance his recording sessions" statement. I actually love that they failed to push him into it. 

Nothing about this is new, but it still took Axl 10 years post this moment to actually put the album out. Meaning, Axl got his way multiple times after this moment. 

If Axl wanted Dave A in the band, Dave A would have been in the band regardless of what Goldstein thought. 

Now did spinless Doug Goldstein tell one Dave A (who had been out of the biggest band in the world for 3 years and done NOTHING afterward at this point)  "we don't need ya cuz we're gunna reunite the original band" as an excuse to get him to stop calling Axl? 

Thats up for debate in my head.... 

 

 

BTW Dave A only wrote 2 pearl jam songs and this is one of them: 

 

[Rindmelon]

7 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

 

 

That's a very nice bass drum kick sound, that audio cant be from that video surely, they must have layered the audio over the video from a higher source

[GoBucky]

Dave A was a monster during PJ'S best era. No matter what beef is there, it's a joke that he wasn't inducted, and included in the HOF ceremony. Krusen played on Ten, dropped out pretty much quicky after, and got in. Dave should be in. 

[W. Axl Kev]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

New interview:

https://www.songfacts.com/blog/interviews/dave-abbruzzese-ex-pearl-jam

The GN'R part:

Songfacts: What do you recall about your experience working with Guns N' Roses?

Abbruzzese: The Guns thing was tough. Axl [Rose] and I became familiar with one another through nightly phone calls for months before we actually met and played music together. It was a tough time for me because I had quite a bit of soul poisoning from the way my manager handled my termination from Pearl Jam. I was leery of entering the big machine again because of it. Things were moving along well until I spoke to the G n' R management regarding my opinion that the new music might be better suited to an Axl solo album rather than a G n' R album.

Doug Smith [David probably means Doug Goldstein], the Guns' manager at the time, told me that the management and the label had a plan of letting the album we were making be the catalyst for getting Axl to reunite with Slash. The plan was to let him fail and the hope was that this failure would inspire him to reunite with Slash and get the big train back on the tracks. When I heard this I was forced to choose between informing Axl about it or just bowing out. I felt that if I told him of their plan it would destroy what little faith he had in the machine.

So I opted to take one on the chin and sacrifice my new friendship for the sake of Axl's ability to continue to be a creative force. It was a difficult decision but ultimately one that I am glad I made. I love that guy and I didn't want to be responsible for ruining the chance of him and the band continuing to make music for their fans that had waited so patiently for so long for G n' R to get back to it.

I have nothing to support this other than the odd thing here and there I've read about this guy over the years, but the general consensus seems to be that he's off the reservation and full of shit. In what world would a record company, who's primary focus is to make money, allow the funding and failure of an act to the detriment of their reputation just to get a prior member in? 

None of the Beatles' former studios even tried stuff like that. Sounds entirely invented.

[cineater]

25 minutes ago, W. Axl Kev said:

I have nothing to support this other than the odd thing here and there I've read about this guy over the years, but the general consensus seems to be that he's off the reservation and full of shit. In what world would a record company, who's primary focus is to make money, allow the funding and failure of an act to the detriment of their reputation just to get a prior member in? 

None of the Beatles' former studios even tried stuff like that. Sounds entirely invented.

There was just something in what he was saying that I went looking on the net suspecting there might be some reservation issues.    Popped right up.

[BluegrassBlues]

I'm actually surprised the record company let it go on as long as they did, I think they were all hoping Axl would get discouraged and give in for a reunion but didn't count on how stubborn he is. But great interview! That was something new I'd never seen before 

[Powderfinger]

4 hours ago, GoBucky said:

Dave A was a monster during PJ'S best era. No matter what beef is there, it's a joke that he wasn't inducted, and included in the HOF ceremony. Krusen played on Ten, dropped out pretty much quicky after, and got in. Dave should be in. 

Their best drummer for me, and they’ve had a few good ones. 

[vloors]

8 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

He may well be telling the truth in this case, but I'm in the Pearl Jam world and Dave has always been a bit of an emotional charity case when it comes to his version of events and retelling stories. I think its a good tell that when PJ was combusting internally and NONE of the members wanted to even be around each other, even on stage, he somehow got the shortest end of the stick and was kicked. All of the drummers have come back and collaborated with PJ, even recently due to Matt Cameron getting covid, but guess who hasn't and won't? Dave A. Drummers at the RNRHOF?? All the ones on the albums, even Dave Krusen. Dave A on the other hand? Not even asked to appear.

What has Dave A done since Pearl Jam besides this story that would define his career on his resume, other than "I was Pearl Jam's drummer when they we're the biggest band in the world..." and arguably the best drummer thats been in the band, period. 

Eddie Vedder has grown immensely since 1994, as has Axl Rose. Axl squashed the beef with Slash, Duff, and Adler, while Izzy is still pending. Same situation with Eddie and Dave A. 

But if a fully mature Eddie Vedder ain't calling Dave A back in the 2020's, I can only imagine what happened between Axl and Dave in the 90's. 

Nothing about this is new, but it still took Axl 10 years post this moment to actually put the album out. Meaning, Axl got his way multiple times after this moment. 

If Axl wanted Dave A in the band, Dave A would have been in the band regardless of what Goldstein thought. 

Now did spinless Doug Goldstein tell one Dave A (who had been out of the biggest band in the world for 3 years and done NOTHING afterward at this point)  "we don't need ya cuz we're gunna reunite the original band" as an excuse to get him to stop calling Axl? 

Thats up for debate in my head.... 

 

 

BTW Dave A only wrote 2 pearl jam songs and this is one of them: 

 

I feel theres a reason behind Daves character as why he hasnt been recruited in ANY other band after he was booted from PJ.

I also feel this may be a reason why he wasnt asked to join gnr.

[©GnrPersia]

10 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

yeahhhhhh right. It sounds like he stopped getting called and had to call Goldstein to figure out what was up and has somehow spun it to he said the music would be better as a solo album lol 

And why would you assume that's what everyone does in your hypothetical scenario?

Very dark world view.

[Tom2112]

9 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

He may well be telling the truth in this case, but I'm in the Pearl Jam world and Dave has always been a bit of an emotional charity case when it comes to his version of events and retelling stories. I think its a good tell that when PJ was combusting internally and NONE of the members wanted to even be around each other, even on stage, he somehow got the shortest end of the stick and was kicked. All of the drummers have come back and collaborated with PJ, even recently due to Matt Cameron getting covid, but guess who hasn't and won't? Dave A. Drummers at the RNRHOF?? All the ones on the albums, even Dave Krusen. Dave A on the other hand? Not even asked to appear.

What has Dave A done since Pearl Jam besides this story that would define his career on his resume, other than "I was Pearl Jam's drummer when they we're the biggest band in the world..." and arguably the best drummer thats been in the band, period. 

Eddie Vedder has grown immensely since 1994, as has Axl Rose. Axl squashed the beef with Slash, Duff, and Adler, while Izzy is still pending. Same situation with Eddie and Dave A. 

But if a fully mature Eddie Vedder ain't calling Dave A back in the 2020's, I can only imagine what happened between Axl and Dave in the 90's. 

Nothing about this is new, but it still took Axl 10 years post this moment to actually put the album out. Meaning, Axl got his way multiple times after this moment. 

If Axl wanted Dave A in the band, Dave A would have been in the band regardless of what Goldstein thought. 

Now did spinless Doug Goldstein tell one Dave A (who had been out of the biggest band in the world for 3 years and done NOTHING afterward at this point)  "we don't need ya cuz we're gunna reunite the original band" as an excuse to get him to stop calling Axl? 

Thats up for debate in my head.... 

 

 

BTW Dave A only wrote 2 pearl jam songs and this is one of them: 

 

The way you frame it is funny. Like Dave was calling Axl every night hounding him. It's more likely Axl was calling Dave talking about the old band, what he should do musically now and and Dave was trying to get off the phone because his ear was getting burnt off😄

As far as Dave being out of the biggest band for 3yrs and not having done anything... well, that didn't hurt his ability to land himself in the drum seat with GNR (however short lived). And what constitutes as nothing to you or I might actually be a lot more, but maybe it just wasn't major label stuff OR he just took a career break which is fair enough he had the money!

If Axl wanted Dave, Dave would have been in GNR... well, Axl did want Dave.... that's why he hired him, Dave was the one who left, unless you have another story saying otherwise from someone who was actually there. Speculation is fine, but when the guy who it happened to is telling the story and you're say "nah, I know what really happened" it's a bit of a head-scratcher. Does Dave have a history of making up BS claims? the few interviews he's given over the years seem very matter of fact to me.

As far as as Dave not getting inducted in the RNRHOF, that was a Eddie thing. You can say he's grown a lot over the years... which might be true, but if you read other members of PJ talk about Eddie and the PJ song writing process there is 100% some dissatisfaction with how Eddie controlled the songwriting. Maybe things have got more democratic between them since though

Edited January 10 by Tom2112

[Blackstar]

Here's what Dave said in the other interview:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5240-2020-10-18-12-09-2020-d-podcast-interviews-with-david-abbruzzese

On talking to Axl on the phone:

DA: "My lawyer and his lawyer were the same lawyer, blah blah blah... He had his guru looking at my pictures for a few years, I guess the time was right, so he asked my lawyer to ask me if I was interested in coming out. Then we spoke on the phone four or five nights a week for a couple of hours at a pop. [....] We did that for months on end. [...] It was cool. I mean, actually I considered him a friend. He was a fascinating dude, fun to talk to on the phone. I don’t think he did it very often back then - I don’t know if he does now. But it was cool. It was interesting. I felt good enough about it and excited about what he wanted to do with Guns N’ Roses. It was real intriguing and incredibly challenging, because he wanted the band to be bigger than it was, and it was like, “Wow. Okay. It’s gonna take some work.”

[...] When I got fired from Pearl Jam, my manager just disappeared. You know, it was like this huge wall came up.  [...]  And so, thinking about entering back into that arena - like, okay, the other biggest band in the world - first thing is talking to the manager and him telling me “Well, you can’t talk to Axl. You’ve got to talk to me, and then I talk to Axl and he tells me, and then I talk...” and I was like, “eww”. So I got Axl’s phone number and I called him up. That was really funny. [...]  His personal assistant - well, I got the number and, you know, good luck from the manager. Then I called and his assistant answered. I said, “Hi, it’s Dave Abbruzzese calling for Axl.” And it was just silence. She stuttered a little bit and said “Uh, hold on.” So I waited, you know, five minutes, ten minutes or so (laughs). And then it was like [in angry deep voice] “Hello!" Like, "Why are you calling me?!” (laughs). I said, “Hey Axl, it’s Dave. I wanted to see what was up. So are you gonna play some music?” And it was about 20 minutes later that it felt like he eased up and he wasn’t afraid anymore. [...]

[...] He started asking me about white leather, if I’d be into it, and then... (laughs). [...] Well, I was just thinking maybe we’d make a record before we decided what I was going to be fucking wearing. You know what I mean? [...] Plus I wasn’t that interested in what he wanted me to wear, actually (laughs) [...]

I was just enjoying [our conversations]... It’s like we were sharing opinions about things, you know, based on intimate things, but all in the context of just – I mean I just felt like we were being real. And we would talk about... he told me about things that no one – you know, that I’d heard the stories, but not the real story. You know what I mean?"

On his audition and playing with Axl:

DA: "But the band that was there when I showed up, like my audition - I just thought, you know, I’d heard these songs enough on the radio. I didn’t really like them that much – just like the Pearl Jam stuff; if I weren’t in the band I wouldn’t have listened to it. But I just figured I’d get it because, you know, as soon as that guitar part (?) - and I’m like, “Okay, great.” I bought a cowbell and everything.  [....] I got there and Axl came in late, and then he just said – you know, this after we’d gotten to know each other fairly well. He came and told some jokes [...] I just remember that he was looking at me like this and he said, “I noticed you laughed at all my jokes.” The room got silent like the air left the room, the huge room. And I just said, “I don’t want to get fired.” [...] That broke the ice and then he said, “So why don’t you and Duff run down these songs?” Oh shit! “Just bass and drums.” [...] So we played and it was cool. But yeah, I expected to hear some of those guitar parts that were telling me what to do. But it worked out. It was really good. Then we started writing music that was nothing like Guns N’ Roses. It was me and Pod Boy doing a double drum thing, and guitarist from Nine Inch Nails, Robin Finck... Yeah, I mean the band was insane, but it certainly wouldn’t have been Guns N’ Roses. [...]   Yeah, it was interesting. It was a trip. But he was really trying hard and he was at the rehearsals... yeah. [....]

We would do these songs that were new with Pod Boy - you know, he is Nine Inch Nails in my opinion in that he’s programmed all those drums for all those years. And Robin Finck, the guitar player, he was in Cirque de Soleil when he came to us [...]  it was mentioned of him, and it was like “Oh, absolutely.” And then when I met him I was like – I mean, it was the first time I’ve ever met someone in that format of presentation that was charismatic and you just... I mean, he was a star. You know, he was a fucking... Yeah, he came in, he’s like 6.5 .... no eyebrows... And when he put his guitar on, it was just like... His fashion, it was sick. It was off the charts. Very charismatic player, you know? And Pod was the same way, and Duff with that music was the same way. It was just a totally different thing.

There’s so many amazing things, like the guy who Axl hired to put together this unbelievable guitar rig, because he decided he wanted to play guitar or something. It was Billy, who gave me a cassette and he’s like, “These are my songs. I’m trying to put together this thing, it’s called A Perfect Circle,” blah blah blah. So all these, like, it was really an interesting time, all the stuff that came out of that little Guns N’ Roses camp thing. Because, you know, when I left, Josh Freese came in and then Josh started working with Billy, and then the Perfect Circle thing formed and... Really cool stuff came out of all that. Then you go, “Oh, oh, oh.”

I think he wanted to make a record and have an experience where he could look to the other guys and just go, “Pooh.” You know, “See, I told you I could.” [...]"

On quitting and Axl's reaction:

DA: "[...] But it was really a strange way of doing things, that whole trip. He wanted to just go down to Rio and, you know, “We could just go and play for a week, and make...  and go make 25 million.” It didn’t matter. We could just go play as Guns N’ Roses for a week and that’s when I started thinking “hmm”. [...] And it just started hitting me really weird. Then the manager told me just to hang in there, because eventually he would be tired of it and hire the rest of the guys back, and it would be my end. That’s when I said I had to go. [...]  Axl is just Axl. He’s a star. He’s who he is. I think that just the whole behind-the-scenes, how his manager told me just to hang in there, because Axl’s gonna burn out of this idea and then get Slash and everybody back, and that will be my end, and just like that kind of... It just hit me wrong. You know, when Pearl Jam - when we were first going through, it was like a really close-knit team, the crew and everybody. And yeah, I just can’t. [...]

Well, what happened was, after we started working and everything, in front of everyone he said – and Duff was still in the band, Dizzy... He said, “Dave, I’m the captain of the ship.” You know, the name is his, the deal is his, all that stuff. [...] Yeah, he got all that stuff from the other guys. He bought – you know, he got total control of the name. [....] Yeah, there were a lot of lawsuits pending when he announced that he wanted – he was basically turning it over to me. He wanted to go under deck and he trusted me to steer the ship on course. It was a strange dynamic, because there was no management, there was no one involved to take all these egos and all these successful players - like Duff, I’m sure he was like, “What the fuck,” you know what I mean? - and get a conversation, all these things. So he was relying on me a lot. And when I decided that I couldn’t do it, that it wasn’t right - you know, that it was the opposite of what I needed to be doing with music – I sent it to him in a fax, because I wanted to make sure it was said right. Then, about four hours later, I got a call from Kim Neely from Rolling Stone in New York, and she said (laughs)... she asked if I was alright. I said yeah, you know, why wouldn’t I. She said she just got off the phone with Axl. Then he called me and, literally for two hours, screamed. I, like, put the phone down on the table; my partner Sherry and I, we just sat there. Two hours before I reached over and just hit off. Every other word was “fuck”, I was a dark lord sent to keep him from bringing light to the world... I mean, really intense. [....]

 I know he trusted me. [...] I didn’t know he would get... I didn’t expect him to blow out like that. I expected us to converse and, you know, I could’ve still been a part of it or whatever. [...]

[....] No, there’s no way in hell that Axl would ever let anything I was a part of surface. [...]  I bet if you mentioned my name you’d probably get fired. [...] I don’t know. I hope he’s not triggered by me. I mean, I wish our relationship would have continued.

[...] Basically, if I got word that Axl wanted to say hello or whatever – I mean, we never really were like “Hey, how are you? How have things been?” We were leading up to something. So I don’t know how that would go. I think if I saw him, if I were in the same room, I would feel comfortable walking over and giving an embrace, you know? And he is really a big guy. I was kind of disappointed when I first met him, because he seemed too big to beat up."

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Abbruzzese's a great drummer- but has always been a wildcard IMHO. Would approach anything he says with caution. This no exception.

 

[Blackstar]

I'd take at least some of the things Dave says with a grain of salt, for example the stuff about Axl wanting to put him in charge of the band. Plus some stuff he said matter-of-factly in the above interview about how the original GN'R was supposedly formed which just isn't true.

[Spoon87]

I always thought of him as more of a show-off that anything else. Sure, good drummer, but in every interview I've read or seen he comes across as a guy who likes to talk too much.

[Voodoochild]

Credibility aside, I'd like to hear how that music was coming out with that lineup. Seems very interesting to me to have Duff and Robin playing together, I don't think Duff talked much about it. 

[rocknroll41]

5 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Credibility aside, I'd like to hear how that music was coming out with that lineup. Seems very interesting to me to have Duff and Robin playing together, I don't think Duff talked much about it. 

Supposedly OMG already existed at that time.

[Voodoochild]

35 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Supposedly OMG already existed at that time.

I think it was being written before, with Matt still in the band?