Russia Invades Ukraine

[alfierose]

Interesting interview with Fiona Hill

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

[alfierose]

Johnson getting a roasting in Warsaw

 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

15 hours ago, Coma16 said:

The world was basically given a heads-up a week or two in-advance of the occupation. Why was nothing done to prevent this? I wonder how much the Bidens and Clintons are set to make after all said and done....

Oh dear.

[alfierose]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Do you think this would be enough of an out for Putin to back off?

- Russian forces leave Ukraine territories, but they keep Crimea.

- Ukraine remains independent and joins the EU, but never joins NATO.

- Russia is heavily fined into covering damages to Ukraine, then sanctions go away.

I honestly have no idea. At the moment he seems to want what he wants.

The clip Jaro posted above doesn't suggest a willingness to back off yet. Maybe in time if their campaign continues to go badly?

[Stay.Of.Execution]

 

 

[Gavin82]

Belarus INVADES Ukraine as second country joins Russian attack - Mirror Online

 

Belarus join Russia and also start invading with the Russians 

[zombux]

19 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Okay. This is bad.

Maybe bomb Belarus as a big "Nope." and get them off the table. In no way can Russia be attacked, obviously, and Putin is relying on that reality, that other countries can't get too involved against Russia. So maybe quickly kill Lukashenko and bomb or engage his military while still not engaging with Russian forces, before Putin can make any statement like he'll take an attack on Belarus as an attack on Russia.

I have huge admiration and sympathy for Ukraine but they are approaching a point where it may be the best thing to reach some level of compromise then surrender because otherwise it may be all over for them and the rest of the world. Modern nuclear weapons are absolutely devastating.

I'm pretty scared tbh particularly for Ukraine and Europe. Hence my uninformed attempts at being an armchair general just mulling it over trying to process what's going on I guess.

Putler already considers Belarus as part of his empire and it would for sure be considered attack on Russia proper.

Belarus has effectively been anschlussed.

[zombux]

another russian agent frantically trying to distance herself away from the truth...

[PatrickS77]

3 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Maybe add to my list of hypothetical agreements, that Ukraine publicly 'surrender' like as a gesture for him to save face.

Why should they? He's the aggressor. Give in to the terrorist for what? And why should his damn face be saved? He started it. He's been getting away with too much for too long.

Edited March 1, 2022 by PatrickS77

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 hour ago, zombux said:

another russian agent frantically trying to distance herself away from the truth...

I hear Putin still has marks of trump's lips on his ass.

[alfierose]

For UK posters

Waive visa requirement for Ukrainian refugees.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/609530

[zombux]

37 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'm saying if this actually escalates, particularly to the level of nuclear conflict aka the end of humanity, they need to take one for the team, live to fight another day and appease him a bit to give him an out or he'll feel backed into a corner.

If it does reach that point, do you want Putin to win in Ukraine and the tragedy that comes with that or do you want the whole planet to be destroyed? For me, that's a heartbreaking but obvious and easy decision. Anyone who doesn't understand this is either dishonest and virtue signalling or insane.

while I get what you mean, but there are a few other things to consider. 

1. Putin cannot win in Ukraine. even if he levels the big cities and murders all the civilians, the country and nation will never bow to him - at this point the Ukrainians hate russians more than anything else imaginable and will rather die fighting with bare hands than surrender

2. economic sanctions soon start crippling the economy of Putlerland

3. western companies are running away from their business in there as well - even if the sanctions wouldn't hurt THAT much, this in the long term will mean brutal economic depression, as without foreign capital the local businesses will just collapse and general folks will be fucked even more than we could possibly imagine

4. that bastard will likely get shot by someone from his inner circle, because the current situation is a free fall without any bottom

5. nuclear attack... yeah, whatever, you terrorist. they know very well that if they tried that, the western response would wipe them out from Earth's face. they are evil and mad, but they are not interested in their own certain death

(yeah, and if they really do it... I'm not afraid, it will be quick... still miles better than live in/under Russia)

[PatrickS77]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'm saying if this actually escalates, particularly to the level of nuclear conflict aka the end of humanity, they need to take one for the team, live to fight another day and appease him a bit to give him an out or he'll feel backed into a corner.

If it does reach that point, do you want Putin to win in Ukraine and the tragedy that comes with that or do you want the whole planet to be destroyed? For me, that's a heartbreaking but obvious and easy decision. Anyone who doesn't understand this is either dishonest and virtue signalling or insane.

If you always back down out of fear that something worse will happen, assholes like him will rule the world (further). The next lunatic that will take note will be the fatso in North Korea. There comes a point where you have to say, here's a line, but you won't get any further. And as mad as Putin is, I think he will know that using nukes will not get him what he wants. And really, what philosophy is it, if you condone war and countries and it's people being oppressed, as long as it doesn't happen in front of your own doorstep.

Edited March 1, 2022 by PatrickS77

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Gets worse and worse everyday. Now Russia missals are bombing regular neighborhoods. I still can't believe the world can't do anything but give Ukraine support and weapons.

One guy on CNN said the same thing I did about killing Putin. Seems there is a rule about not killing heads of countries. Well, that sucks.

Everyone is saying how nuts Putin is acting now and even his own cabinet is questioning his judgement, but they are scared shitless of him.

Maybe like Hitler, his own people will try to kill him. Otherwise, I don't understand how this is happening?

I saw a husband and wife on CNN who got married and are now fighting to keep their freedom. I have to admire these people for doing what they are doing. I know I would have taken my family out of the Ukraine as soon as possible.

Such brave citizens. After this is over, how can they have a normal life again? Just too damn sad.

11 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

If you always back down out of fear that something worse will happen, assholes like him will rule the world (further). The next lunatic that will take note will be the fatso in North Korea. There comes a point where you have to say, here's a line, but you won't get any further. And as mad as Putin is, I think he will know that using nukes will not get him what he wants. And really, what philosophy is it, if you condone war and people and countries being oppressed, as long is it doesn't happen in front of your doorstep.

I agree but don't forget about Chi in China and whoever the hell is leading Iran right now? Too many crazy fucks.

So many damn movies always show heros going in and taking out all the bad guys. I so wish this could happen in real life. Damn it!

[PatrickS77]

6 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Gets worse and worse everyday. Now Russia missals are bombing regular neighborhoods. I still can't believe the world can't do anything but give Ukraine support and weapons.

One guy on CNN said the same thing I did about killing Putin. Seems there is a rule about not killing heads of countries. Well, that sucks.

So many damn movies always show heros going in and taking out all the bad guys. I so wish this could happen in real life. Damn it!

Well. Obviously it is a thin line and as to not openly risk a war between Europe/the world and Russia the best way for now will be to just support Ukraine and see how they do on their own.

I guess taking out Putin would have to be an inside job, done by one of his own. Otherwise that also would risk a war between the world and Russia.

Yeah. 2 bad it is not a movie, because then you would have some secret US special ops, which existance is denied by everyone, most likely lead by a female 100 pound expert field agent/assasin going in and taking out Putin.

[zombux]

15 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

I agree but don't forget about Chi in China and whoever the hell is leading Iran right now? Too many crazy fucks.

China is anything but stupid. this shitfest is ruining their business a lot. they officially act the way they act, but unofficially they are furious over what the russian idiot is doing to them. I'm sure US and China are in constant phone contact and talk about how to deal with this.

Iran is not relevant, luckily they don't have any nuclear arsenal, maybe besides some dirty bomb but nothing that could threaten anyone.

[ZoSoRose]

Another peace talk to occur tomorrow

[jamillos]

While my back is killing me, I bow to the fucking floor before the Ukrainian people. Legends, is what we call them. 

[-Jaro-]

1 hour ago, ZoSoRose said:

Another peace talk to occur tomorrow

That is bullshit. In our war during 90s there was hundreds peace talks and even tens of agreement of peace. Only in paper... Grenades were falling during them... 

Peace came after big scale military action that freed great part of our cluntry, other was peacfully returned because of fear after 1st action.

You cannot negotiate in situations like these. Peace talks preparations under missile fire, yeah right...

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

6 minutes ago, -Jaro- said:

That is bullshit. In our war during 90s there was hundreds peace talks and even tens of agreement of peace. Only in paper... Grenades were falling during them... 

Peace came after big scale military action that freed great part of our cluntry, other was peacfully returned because of fear after 1st action.

You cannot negotiate in situations like these. Peace talks preparations under missile fire, yeah right...

I agree if Putin wanted peace, he would never have invaded Ukraine. I wish there was a way the world could have stopped Putin from invaded Ukraine. This is madness.

Thank goodness for the countries around Ukraine who are taking the people in and helping them, What will they do in the future? Will they even have a home to go back to?  

Putin has to see that these people will not give into him no matter what Russia does? CNN said Russian troops are running low on fuel and food. Does Putin even care about his own people? Doubt it. The man is crazy. What else will he do and is there no way to stop him?

Russians are suffering too. I doubt Putin's life is hurting much. He pretty much prepared for this. Wish one of his people would step up and put a bullet in his head.

[zombux]

22 minutes ago, -Jaro- said:

That is bullshit. In our war during 90s there was hundreds peace talks and even tens of agreement of peace. Only in paper... Grenades were falling during them... 

Peace came after big scale military action that freed great part of our cluntry, other was peacfully returned because of fear after 1st action.

You cannot negotiate in situations like these. Peace talks preparations under missile fire, yeah right...

I have been wondering if the current situation in ukrainian cities ends up like Sarajevo, like Vukovar or other similar events back then.

shitty stuff no matter what

15 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Thank goodness for the countries around Ukraine who are taking the people in and helping them, What will they do in the future? Will they even have a home to go back to?  

nobody knows. we just do what we can and what we have to do. only time will tell.

[-Jaro-]

13 minutes ago, zombux said:

I have been wondering if the current situation in ukrainian cities ends up like Sarajevo, like Vukovar or other similar events back then.

Well, until now (as far as we know) russian soldiers don't do any executions in occupied areas. They are even scared because they seem to not know why are they there. 

In ex-yu wars situation where civilians are stopping tanks or armed soldiers would end in blood bath... That war was fed by hate between nations that was cultivated trough decades (even centuries) in history.

But indiscriminate bombing of towns and cities is 1st step to that. Also, Putins(and from some of his enturage) rhetoric is very reminiscent to Milosevic one ("Ukrainians don't exist, they are Russians", "they are all Nazis", "we are in peace mission to defend endangered Russians in Ukraine"...)

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

3 hours ago, zombux said:

while I get what you mean, but there are a few other things to consider. 

1. Putin cannot win in Ukraine. even if he levels the big cities and murders all the civilians, the country and nation will never bow to him - at this point the Ukrainians hate russians more than anything else imaginable and will rather die fighting with bare hands than surrender

2. economic sanctions soon start crippling the economy of Putlerland

3. western companies are running away from their business in there as well - even if the sanctions wouldn't hurt THAT much, this in the long term will mean brutal economic depression, as without foreign capital the local businesses will just collapse and general folks will be fucked even more than we could possibly imagine

4. that bastard will likely get shot by someone from his inner circle, because the current situation is a free fall without any bottom

5. nuclear attack... yeah, whatever, you terrorist. they know very well that if they tried that, the western response would wipe them out from Earth's face. they are evil and mad, but they are not interested in their own certain death

(yeah, and if they really do it... I'm not afraid, it will be quick... still miles better than live in/under Russia)

I'm not so convinced the Ukraine is going to fight to the death like Poland in 41 vs Germany and the USSR. There's so much fog of war right now where the western press is saying the invasion is going terribly for Russia but Russia does seem to be at the gates of the largest cities and is taking impressive amounts of territory without large scale bombing. Eventually the rubber will hit the road and we'll see what the real truth is/was.

[EvanG]

57 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm not so convinced the Ukraine is going to fight to the death like Poland in 41 vs Germany and the USSR. There's so much fog of war right now where the western press is saying the invasion is going terribly for Russia but Russia does seem to be at the gates of the largest cities and is taking impressive amounts of territory without large scale bombing. Eventually the rubber will hit the road and we'll see what the real truth is/was.

I haven't been reading that. I have been reading that Ukraine is putting up more resistance than Russia probably anticipated, but that it's a matter of time before Russia takes control.

Edited March 1, 2022 by EvanG

[grouse]

51 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm not so convinced the Ukraine is going to fight to the death like Poland in 41 vs Germany and the USSR. There's so much fog of war right now where the western press is saying the invasion is going terribly for Russia but Russia does seem to be at the gates of the largest cities and is taking impressive amounts of territory without large scale bombing. Eventually the rubber will hit the road and we'll see what the real truth is/was.

Don't know where you are getting that info from, general consensus from the start has been that while Ukraine may resist the outcome will sadly be as expected.