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Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

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13 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

What's the source for this? I know it's in a book (just vaguely implied, not clearly stated), but what's the original source? Or is there any other source besides that book?

I cannot remember but it might have been a Vicky Hamilton interview.

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14 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

What's the source for this? I know it's in a book (just vaguely implied, not clearly stated), but what's the original source? Or is there any other source besides that book?

Why would they throw hush money around when they hadn't signed GNR yet?

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

He says he was there :shrugs:

We do need clarification. Well... I do need it.

Haha, that's your right, of course.

The way I see it, the whole life they lived was just awful. They were living a life of sex, drugs and rock n' roll and it attracted a lot of people. Plus they were almost kids themselves, being 20 or early 20s. I'm sure among the seemingly endless line of girls who offered themselves to them or were seduced by them, there were underage girls. Hell, 13 year old Steven had sex with a married woman in her 30s. Slash's parents let him live at his gf's place when he was like 12 or 13, smoking pot with the gf's mum; and years later, when his ex called them over for an intervention after she was worried about him because of his substance abuse, they just laughed it off. Like WTF? Their whole life was so messed up with no clear boundaries, and they all had issues, and I'm sure lots of things happened that were wrong. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But as for this particular story, there will always be the two sides and it will never be a pretty story, it will always be horrible, regardless of which side you look at it.

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21 minutes ago, Lio said:

Why would they throw hush money around when they hadn't signed GNR yet?

Yeah, I don't know. The book where it's been kind of implied (which is the only source that I know of) says that when the band was signed the rape charges were semi-pending, meaning that they were close to be dropped anyway. Basically, the book excerpt says that Geffen helped Axl get an attorney to settle his pending legal problems in Lafayette (like jumping bail, etc.) and somewhere there the writer drops a mention about the semi-pending rape charge in L.A.

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I don't find it hard to believe that Duff today, at 55 years old, married for 20 years, with two daughters, and sober, isn't the same person he was 30 to 35 years ago when he was a raging addict and alcoholic living in a storage unit surrounded by debauchery.

 

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1 hour ago, MaskingApathy said:

Lennon was a huge hypocrite too.

Then Duff can be love and peace symbol too.....how Lennon is...

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21 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

I don't find it hard to believe that Duff today, at 55 years old, married for 20 years, with two daughters, and sober, isn't the same person he was 30 to 35 years ago when he was a raging addict and alcoholic living in a storage unit surrounded by debauchery.

 

Nobody finds that hard to believe and it sure is a good thing. But he can't bullshit the whole world and try to change the past. Now he's getting the deserved backlash.

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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The difference is, Lennon admitted he was an arsehole, and wouldn't re-write history.

I put Lennon just as example, but this Raz Cue guy defend Trump for the same behavior that he attack GNR, at least he is very contradictory, and would put of accord with himself. 

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21 hours ago, killuridols said:

"Invested"? ugh, far from that..... The last show I attended was in 2017 and I have read very few show threads after that.... actually, I have not even watched videos since my own shows... everything got boring after that, repetitive, stale setlist, singer's voice turned shitty and not one trace of new music.

My visits and participation in this forum has reduced considerably for the last year or so. There are some really cool people here I like talking to, about things that have nothign to do with GN'R :shrugs:

Fair enough, I just thought you were on threads about new music not so long ago... But I can't say I'm keeping tabs🤣

If you don't enjoy it, I have no problem with that and if later on down the road you decide you like it again, I have no problem with that either! And like you said there's plenty to talk about around here besides gnr. 

Curious though, was the last show in 2017 because that was the last time they played near you? 

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2 hours ago, Lio said:

Why would they throw hush money around when they hadn't signed GNR yet?

Because they had a great potential and people like Tom Zutaut was determined to make them big.

Deep inside Geffen knew GN'R was the hen of the golden eggs.

2 hours ago, Lio said:

They were living a life of sex, drugs and rock n' roll and it attracted a lot of people. Plus they were almost kids themselves, being 20 or early 20s. I'm sure among the seemingly endless line of girls who offered themselves to them or were seduced by them, there were underage girls. Hell, 13 year old Steven had sex with a married woman in her 30s. Slash's parents let him live at his gf's place when he was like 12 or 13, smoking pot with the gf's mum; and years later, when his ex called them over for an intervention after she was worried about him because of his substance abuse, they just laughed it off. Like WTF? Their whole life was so messed up with no clear boundaries, and they all had issues, and I'm sure lots of things happened that were wrong. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But as for this particular story, there will always be the two sides and it will never be a pretty story, it will always be horrible, regardless of which side you look at it.

Are you womansplaining me? :suspicious:

 

:lol:j/k

Duh, I know all of that..... but I always go further than just settling with the "context". Okay, the context plays big, but not everybody in the same context were doing those kind of things. And when I say "everybody" I mean people in general, not the particular bunch of rock bands, artists, etc.

Also, Im not sure to what extent all of it can be attributed to "having issues", "living a messed up life", or being alcoholic, drugaddict, etc.... I feel like there was an entitlement to be a jerk to women and they found no limits to that. Everything was allowed, no punishment, so they kept taking it further and further.

Yes, this particular story is disturbing but I will always feel much more empathy for the victim than for the criminals. Especially if she was an underaged girl.
And if the story isn't true and she's making up all of this, I don't have a problem with looking like a fool for believing her.
At least I know that I have not lost empathy towards other human beings.

 

16 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Fair enough, I just thought you were on threads about new music not so long ago... But I can't say I'm keeping tabs🤣

If you don't enjoy it, I have no problem with that and if later on down the road you decide you like it again, I have no problem with that either! And like you said there's plenty to talk about around here besides gnr. 

Curious though, was the last show in 2017 because that was the last time they played near you? 

Probably I was because "new music" is a topic of my interest.

Too bad it's just fan utopia :rolleyes:

Yeah, in 2017 they played in my country but I travelled to Chile to see them over there.

 

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5 hours ago, killuridols said:

It's because of people like you that these stories get shelved for 35 years.

He says he was there :shrugs:

We do need clarification. Well... I do need it.

A 15 years old girl running away naked from a "Hellhouse" full of adult men is enough evidence that something illegal was going on. Doesnt matter what she says or what they say, adult people shouldn't be having sexual relationships with minors. Period.

 

The only thing that matters is the music. That’s it. 

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Not defending any dodgy behavior btw but weren't GNR late comers to the whole rock & roll debauchery...The Stones, Beatles, Kiss, Aerosmith, Van Halen, Thin Lizzy, Motley Crue...numerous other bands...all have a past with groupies well before Guns had formed...GNR and a few other mid to late 80's and early 90's rockers had there time as well...just copied there peers. The women who helped the band during the early years should have been compensated when the band started getting real money, you know the girls from the 'the girls behind guns n ' roses documentary' those women fed them & basically helped them before the moneybags appeared. 

Edited by Edward Nygma

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16 hours ago, DeadSlash said:

All other factors aside, just boiling this down to it's core, when you are the person who wrote the lyric "Turn around bitch, I got a use for you." calling out someone for saying "grab em by the pussy" and acting like it's just the most disgusting thing in the world is pretty hypocritical, and absurd.

 

If anything, just shut the fuck up about the subject.  How would you NOT think that would come back at you?

That very same guy wrote, " I searched the universe and found myself within her eyes" . 

 

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Anyone who takes Duff's story as truth likes being taken for a ride.

We all know what GNR were about back in the 80's and I dont need Raz to tell me that .

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4 hours ago, Modano09 said:

I don't find it hard to believe that Duff today, at 55 years old, married for 20 years, with two daughters, and sober, isn't the same person he was 30 to 35 years ago when he was a raging addict and alcoholic living in a storage unit surrounded by debauchery.

 

There is no doubt the man has changed. Doesnt change the fact he's full of shit though

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I find it hard to believe that good and innocent high school girls who want nothing more than to have a soda and sit holding hands politely would just simply stumble into a place like the Hell House. Pretty sure they knew where they were going, and they were going there... that's right, to drink, do drugs and have sex. You had to be scum to be caught at a place like that - and that includes the band, the girls and everyone else there. Besides, to me it doesn't seem at all unimaginable for a girl who's crazy about a musician to grow bitter and start making accusations if things don't go as she wanted. An interesting bunch they can be, those groupies. Strongly suggest watching this docu bellow, it gives pretty good insight of what girls surrounding bands think like.

 

Speaking of underage, though, didn't Duff himself lose his virginity to an adult woman when he was 13-14 and then get crabs afterwards?

Edited by vikute91

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3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I didn't read all the comments but the #metoo movement is not actually about women being treated equally.  It is about sexual assault and harassment (mostly in the workplace). Again I didn't read the comments you are referring to but I can see why people might call certain elements of the movement bullshit. Like the women who have capitalized on the movement to gain fame and money which definitely happens.. Or women who might have 100% willingly used sex as a tool to try to get a job or that part in a movie who might be now changing the story for their advantage. There is no doubt that happens.  Then there are the ridiculous knee jerk reactions to the movement causing radio stations to ban songs like "Baby It's Cold Outside"..  That was so stupid.. You also have people like Duff trying to re-write history... Things like that.. 

I am not against the whole #metoo thing but these movements can definitely be a slippery slope. 

 

I totally agree with this! I knew of a woman who accused a guy of rape back in the day. The truth came out that it was consensual sex. She had issues with mental health and her father.  Another woman that I had deeply cared about was molested by a woman when she was young.

I'm not against the #metoo movement since it has raised awareness, but as a single guy I'm also a bit more cautious as well.    

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3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I didn't read all the comments but the #metoo movement is not actually about women being treated equally.  It is about sexual assault and harassment (mostly in the workplace). 

Unless you are saying that you are at equal risk of being sexually assaulted (mostly in the workplace) as a woman is, then yes, it is an issue of equality. 

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3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I am not against the whole #metoo thing but these movements can definitely be a slippery slope. 

One of the problems with these movements is that horrible people take advantage of it for their own agendas, or to jump on the bandwagon for convenience, or because they think it is a fad they NEED to belong to (like Duff). Those things overshadow the essence of the movement and give green light to the naysayers to destroy it.

The other problem that derives from it is that the focus is put on the negative and the victims are scrutinized, vilified, turned into the enemy and equated to the VERY FEW cases where someone has lied about being abused or raped. The examples you give are really a small percentage, but this is enough for some people to call bullshit the whole movement.

 

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