The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The original drummer in Guns N' Roses wasn't Steven, it was Rob Gardner  After Rob left, Steven was reluctantly added to the band when they sorely needed a drummer for the Hell Tour and his puppy-eagerness settled the deal. Great drummer and integral to my favorite GN'R lineup, but he wasn't the original drummer of the band 

Izzy, though, was an original member of the band.

Just being a pedantic ass.

I know technically the first person to play drums under the gnr name was Rob Gardener, but I just don't count it. 

He was in and out of the band in a matter of weeks/months. Basically none of his parts (or none full stop) were used after he left. He didn't record anything and he played very few shows, while they were completely unknown. To quote Lars "it doesn't hold any water". In my mind Gnr were formed on the hell tour and Steven is the original drummer.

3 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

That is ok, we don't need to agree on the same subject.

Most of us don't consider or care much about post Buenos Aires 17/7/93 or post TSI, for everything post was a tribute band to Matt/Gilby era or epic fail (Chinese Democracy).

Matt played on 3 GNR albums, biggest tour and together with Gilby was a replacement of original band memeber.

Everyone else post Matt or Gilby was just their replacement in a cover band, playing the parts they recorded (Matt), if you can live with that - fine, if not - fine.

That's not true. The majority of the people here have liked/loved gnr after the 96 break up. Not everyone liked the album, but a whole lot of people agree the band was on fire from 2006-2010.

As for Matt. He played on UYI and TSI. UYI, he came up with some of his own parts, and in other songs he played Stevens parts. He was a band member, but in terms of control and creative freedom he was absolutely no different to any member of gnr outside of the original 5. So he was a hired replacement. He didn't write any songs, he just played the parts. And he did all that stuff well! But he was just a capable player filling Stevens spot. 

This karaoke BS that some people love to spew is hilarious too. If you had to be as accomplished as the majority of the CD line up to do karaoke it'd be a fairly niche passtime.

[PatrickS77]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The original drummer in Guns N' Roses wasn't Steven, it was Rob Gardner  After Rob left, Steven was reluctantly added to the band when they sorely needed a drummer for the Hell Tour and his puppy-eagerness settled the deal. Great drummer and integral to my favorite GN'R lineup, but he wasn't the original drummer of the band 

Izzy, though, was an original member of the band.

Just being a pedantic ass.

As far as albums is concerned, Steven is the original drummer. Who cares what happened before they recorded music?

To put Gilby on the same level as Matt and above any of the other replacements is ridiculous though.

[Dean]

7 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I know technically the first person to play drums under the gnr name was Rob Gardener, but I just don't count it. 

He was in and out of the band in a matter of weeks/months. Basically none of his parts (or none full stop) were used after he left. He didn't record anything and he played very few shows, while they were completely unknown. To quote Lars "it doesn't hold any water". In my mind Gnr were formed on the hell tour and Steven is the original drummer.

I'm the same and that includes the rest of the guys that were in the band fleetingly. It's just my opinion, but Appetite wouldn't have been what it was without those 5 guys and anything that came before the five of them got together as Guns N' Roses, I'm not bothered about. 

[SoulMonster]

16 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

As far as albums is concerned, Steven is the original drummer.

Yes, he was the "first drummer to record an album with Guns N' Roses", but as far as "original band member", he simply wasn't

20 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I know technically the first person to play drums under the gnr name was Rob Gardener, but I just don't count it. 

Okay.

When it comes to "original" I go with whoever was first regardless of what they achieved with the band because...that's what it means and I have no need to redefine terms.

Edited April 25, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Sisyphus]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, he was the "first drummer to record an album with Guns N' Roses", but as far as "original band member", he simply wasn't

Okay.

When it comes to "original" I go with whoever was first regardless of what they achieved with the band because...that's what it means and I have no need to redefine terms.

Well that makes Mick Avory and Dick Taylor original Rolling Stones. That's just ridiculous. A totally insignificant technicality. But whatever floats your boat.

[RussTCB]

I sure hope anyone using the term "us" when they talk about GN'R lineups means "die hard fans". No one on Earth outside of die hard fans can name more than two people from any GN'R lineup before, during or after the Appetite era. All of this means far more to us forum fans than it does to anyone else. 

And the fact remains that to this day, the general public only cares that Slash & Axl are there with respect to whether or not they view it as "real GN'R". 

[SoulMonster]

23 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Well that makes Mick Avory and Dick Taylor original Rolling Stones. That's just ridiculous. A totally insignificant technicality. 

It is what "original" means  I have never understood why this rubs so many fans the wrong way. It doesn't in any form or shame reduce the significance of the AFD lineup, it doesn't in any shape or form means that the original lineup was important or anything, it doesn't in any shape or form means that Steven. Slash and Duff weren't extremely important members of Guns N' Roses. It just means they weren't the first.

I am a hardcore AFD lineup fan. To me, that was Guns N' Roses at its best. But I can still at the same time admit that Rob Gardner played drums in Guns N' Roses before Steven did, that Ole Beich played drums before Duff did, and that Tracii Guns played lead guitar before Slash did. Steven, Duff and Slash are still awesome, just not the original band members. They can be awesome and be second. 

[Rovim]

can just call Steven, Slash, Axl, Izzy, and Duff the classic lineup and those who came first the original lineup.

[Sosso]

At least, we don't have two bands with the name Guns N' Roses at the same time. Similar to Tracii Guns' L.A. Guns and Steve Riley's L.A. Guns. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Sosso

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, he was the "first drummer to record an album with Guns N' Roses", but as far as "original band member", he simply wasn't

Okay.

When it comes to "original" I go with whoever was first regardless of what they achieved with the band because...that's what it means and I have no need to redefine terms.

Oh I'm not on about changing facts, i'm just saying satin that when the world thinks of the 1st guns drummer, it's adler. I'll meet you in the middle and say he was the classic era line up drummer, but also in my eyes he's the original😄

[RussTCB]

50 minutes ago, Sosso said:

At least, we don't have two bands with the name Guns N' Roses at the same time. Similar to Tracii Guns' L.A. Guns and Steve Riley's L.A. Guns. 

I bet we came close at one point. Who knows what went on behind the scenes legally over the years 

 

[GNRfanMILO]

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

can just call Steven, Slash, Axl, Izzy, and Duff the classic lineup and those who came first the original lineup.

Yeah that's what I always do. Classic -> AFD, Original -> First lineup

For some reason, telling people that Slash is not a founding member can get you some friendly answers 

[Free Bird]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

It is what "original" means  I have never understood why this rubs so many fans the wrong way. It doesn't in any form or shame reduce the significance of the AFD lineup, it doesn't in any shape or form means that the original lineup was important or anything, it doesn't in any shape or form means that Steven. Slash and Duff weren't extremely important members of Guns N' Roses. It just means they weren't the first.

I am a hardcore AFD lineup fan. To me, that was Guns N' Roses at its best. But I can still at the same time admit that Rob Gardner played drums in Guns N' Roses before Steven did, that Ole Beich played drums before Duff did, and that Tracii Guns played lead guitar before Slash did. Steven, Duff and Slash are still awesome, just not the original band members. They can be awesome and be second. 

To me it's not about who's awesome snd who's not. It was a group of people who were trying to find the right lineup. They were playing around at this time, with the band's name and with the members who were coming and leaving again. It happened that the wrong lineup used the right name first. They still weren't the band we used to love. 

If Rob, Ole or Tracii were there when Guns got singed by Geffen, if it was their signature under that contract, or if their input had been on AFD, then I would say, ok, they deserved it. But that's not the case.

But before it gets outta control again I think we should agree to disagree on this.

[tony adler]

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

It is what "original" means  I have never understood why this rubs so many fans the wrong way. It doesn't in any form or shame reduce the significance of the AFD lineup, it doesn't in any shape or form means that the original lineup was important or anything, it doesn't in any shape or form means that Steven. Slash and Duff weren't extremely important members of Guns N' Roses. It just means they weren't the first.

I am a hardcore AFD lineup fan. To me, that was Guns N' Roses at its best. But I can still at the same time admit that Rob Gardner played drums in Guns N' Roses before Steven did, that Ole Beich played drums before Duff did, and that Tracii Guns played lead guitar before Slash did. Steven, Duff and Slash are still awesome, just not the original band members. They can be awesome and be second. 

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

To me it's not about who's awesome snd who's not. It was a group of people who were trying to find the right lineup. They were playing around at this time, with the band's name and with the members who were coming and leaving again. It happened that the wrong lineup used the right name first. They still weren't the band we used to love. 

If Rob, Ole or Tracii were there when Guns got singed by Geffen, if it was their signature under that contract, or if their input had been on AFD, then I would say, ok, they deserved it. But that's not the case.

But before it gets outta control again I think we should agree to disagree on this.

Amen! Those chaps that took over after Slash/Duff were Also called GNR but we know who made it all possible to get those timeless songs on AFD and it was AFD only that mattered........ period!

[MaskingApathy]

5 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I bet we came close at one point. Who knows what went on behind the scenes legally over the years 

 

Well we did have VR (which was basically the Slash/Duff/Matt version of GnR) going at the same time as Axl's GnR. They just chose to take a different name.

[SoulMonster]

10 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I bet we came close at one point. Who knows what went on behind the scenes legally over the years 

 

I agree. Slash was pretty angry with Axl taking the name and starting a band and said something about looking into legal options... if he could have, I wouldn't have been surprised if he had started his own version of the band.

[El Guapo]

So, when is it coming out, any updates?

 

 

Just kidding.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

22 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

So, when is it coming out, any updates?

 

 

Just kidding.

Still unclear how to release it.

[ZODIAC]

They are sorting things out, i'd guess... 😅

[ShadowOfTheWave]

I assume a remastered Ain't Goin Down single is coming out soon, unless they are going to delay the UYI box for a year like the AFD one.

[Frankfurt93]

On 4/25/2021 at 5:36 PM, Tom2112 said:

I know technically the first person to play drums under the gnr name was Rob Gardener, but I just don't count it. 

He was in and out of the band in a matter of weeks/months. Basically none of his parts (or none full stop) were used after he left. He didn't record anything and he played very few shows, while they were completely unknown. To quote Lars "it doesn't hold any water". In my mind Gnr were formed on the hell tour and Steven is the original drummer.

That's not true. The majority of the people here have liked/loved gnr after the 96 break up. Not everyone liked the album, but a whole lot of people agree the band was on fire from 2006-2010.

As for Matt. He played on UYI and TSI. UYI, he came up with some of his own parts, and in other songs he played Stevens parts. He was a band member, but in terms of control and creative freedom he was absolutely no different to any member of gnr outside of the original 5. So he was a hired replacement. He didn't write any songs, he just played the parts. And he did all that stuff well! But he was just a capable player filling Stevens spot. 

This karaoke BS that some people love to spew is hilarious too. If you had to be as accomplished as the majority of the CD line up to do karaoke it'd be a fairly niche passtime.

 

Depends how you view first drummer.

There are bands who replaced 10 members before recording debut.

It is ok to think the way you do, ut it is not very logical.   ...or do you really think it is ok throwing around names just for the sake of it!?  

Be honest not even you heard Rob Gardner, so lets cut the BS.

In my books, the original drummer is the one who recorded debute album, his first replacement is legit, everyone else - revolving door or a replacement of a replacement.  Whichever way you want to look at it - doesn't change. As for facts, Any post '94 line up attracted way less crowds, was not on the levels of -91 -m '93 when the band ruled the worls and they played covers of '87 - '93 band.  Let's be honest, nobody 2006 - 2010 came to see CD songs, for no song off CD was on the quality level of AFD - UYI album.

For CD, there is far worse shit  that has some fan base, but that doesn't change the fact CD was EPIC train wreck.

Finally, do you really consider anyone apart from Axl as GNR member '93 - 2016!?!?

No offence...

[Frankfurt93]

 Once and for all -

Original line up = the one that recorded debut album. Full stop. Everything else - fulling around trying to draw attention.

Just like the fact that out of all of millions of fans around the globe, 99% became fans for '87 - 93, not any of the later work. 

Go on the street and make survey,

 

[Tom2112]

20 minutes ago, Frankfurt93 said:

 

Depends how you view first drummer.

There are bands who replaced 10 members before recording debut.

It is ok to think the way you do, ut it is not very logical.   ...or do you really think it is ok throwing around names just for the sake of it!?  

Be honest not even you heard Rob Gardner, so lets cut the BS.

In my books, the original drummer is the one who recorded debute album, his first replacement is legit, everyone else - revolving door or a replacement of a replacement.  Whichever way you want to look at it - doesn't change. As for facts, Any post '94 line up attracted way less crowds, was not on the levels of -91 -m '93 when the band ruled the worls and they played covers of '87 - '93 band.  Let's be honest, nobody 2006 - 2010 came to see CD songs, for no song off CD was on the quality level of AFD - UYI album.

For CD, there is far worse shit  that has some fan base, but that doesn't change the fact CD was EPIC train wreck.

Finally, do you really consider anyone apart from Axl as GNR member '93 - 2016!?!?

No offence...

What the fuck are you on about? I said nobody outside of here knows Rob Gardener and that I consider Steven the original because he did all the groundwork, EP and LP. Think you completely misunderstood me... even though I said "I don't count his few weeks in gnr as Important".

Now to 2006-2014. You're talking out of your ass. I met so many people at the shows who were excited to hear the CD songs. Maybe you didn't go to the shows but by 2012 the crowds were smaller but a lot of people were singing along to SOD, Better and TIL. I know had they chose to play only 1 song from CD I would have been pissed. I went to hear the new album just like I go to a Metallica show and want to hear their new album.

You don't have to like it. Loads of people don't. But I draw the line at morons saying nobody goes to hear those songs. There's somebody out there that wants to hear 'My World' live for Christ sake, there are hundreds of thousands (min) of people (worldwide) who want to hear Better AND all the classic songs. 

I definitely consider Richard a member, with or without writing credits. I considered all the 2006-2010 guys as members. I don't care if you don't or anyone else for that matter. I had no problem accepting a new line up. And once again I'll state my opinion that 2006-2014 gnr were a better live act.

[Dean]

47 minutes ago, Frankfurt93 said:

Finally, do you really consider anyone apart from Axl as GNR member '93 - 2016!?!?

"...without Paul...

Saint Paul...

there would be no more Guns N' Roses"

That's good enough for me. Those guys played a huge part in a great fucking record and their efforts will be appreciated for generations to come.

[Dean]

12 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

And once again I'll state my opinion that 2006-2014 gnr were a better live act.

Woooaaah. 

Hang fire there. 01/06, I can give you! 

That said, I really did think they hit a stride in 2012. 4tus shone on Rocket Queen in particular. Musically, they were tighter than in 2010, but Axl was the difference in it being more widely appreciated in my opinion.