20 years later - why was 2002 tour cancelled?

[BangoSkank]

39 minutes ago, Bitchisback said:

Philly 2002 was to be my first ever GnR show! Had tickets to the next show too lol 🙃

 

Oh well at least I can say I was at a GnR riot lol

15 year old me is still crushed by it not happening. I was supposed to go to both too.

Now 34 year old me kind of thinks it's sweet I was in the riot.

[2020_Intensions]

1 hour ago, Bitchisback said:

Because God hates me!

 

Philly 2002 was to be my first ever GnR show! Had tickets to the next show too lol 🙃

 

Oh well at least I can say I was at a GnR riot lol

Philly 2012 was my first GnR (and any) show (:

[GoBucky]

The Chicago show was fantastic! It was a sold out crowd and the excitement in the building that night was huge.

[We love Axl Rose]

Is there an audio recording from MSG show?

Edited September 2, 2021 by We love Axl Rose

[Subtle Signs]

I saw the tour in London,Ontario and while it wasn't quite as awesome as my first Gn'R show in 92, it was still cool to see probably the second best time for the band besides 85-93 . 

[Bitchisback]

4 hours ago, BangoSkank said:

15 year old me is still crushed by it not happening. I was supposed to go to both too.

Now 34 year old me kind of thinks it's sweet I was in the riot.

Honestly I agree but I still wish I got to see Buckethead play with the band.  Eventually I did see them in 2006 which was amazing.  Axl was fantastic that night.

 

4 hours ago, 2020_Intensions said:

Philly 2012 was my first GnR (and any) show (:

So now you can tell people your first concert was Mixmaster Mike 

[Beto 22]

9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

There were various different rumours in the press about what caused Axl's no show in Philadelphia: Axl watching a basketball game; the fur coat incident; the shows not selling well and Axl saying that the MSG show was the best they could do in that regard; Axl struggling with serious mental health issues and having his psychiatrist on tour, who advised him to continue performing, but Axl couldn't take it anymore and wanted to go to a mental hospital for treatment.

The mental health story is the most plausible (regardless of whether every detail in it was true), combined with another rumour about what specifically happened earlier that day: Axl was in great mood after the MSG show -  it had been sold out and gone really well - and stayed up, excited to read the reviews. But then he put oHoward Stern on the radio and when they were discussing the MSG show, Stern's producer, who was there, said that Axl was lip-synching, and hearing that caused Axl to have a nervous breakdown.

As @SoulMonster mentioned, in an interview (which was taken down as fake but was most likely real) shortly after the fact, Axl's bodyguard, Earl, said that Axl was dealing with emotional problems, didn't deny the mental hospital story, and stated that Axl cancelled the show early on, but the promoter went on with it (that's similar to what Axl himself said in 2012).

After the riot, the promoter, Clear Channel, cancelled the rest of the tour. The Philadelphia events in combination with the tour cancellation were followed by a lot of extremely negative press. Industry people were saying that it was the end for Axl and that no one would book a tour for him anymore or at least for a few years. And, of course, there were lawsuits (Axl said in 2012 that he had been sued for everything he said), which were still going until at least 2005.

There wasn't a rumour that the tour was weak on Ticket Sales and Clear Channel wanted to downscale the tour to smaller places and Axl refused so they cancel the entire tour?

[Coma16]

Toronto 2002 was amazing, but they came on so late (was soooo late in Toronto 2010 that I really though shit was gonna hit the fan, which turned into the best concert of my life).

[mystery]

Another question that fits into this is what was the state of the album by 2002? I recall Axl showing what would end up being the cover at one of the shows he did in August. There was also a concert promo from 2002 that used to be on YouTube that had a studio version of Chinese Democracy to promote the tour. Was Axl still hopeful at this point that it would release?

Edited September 2, 2021 by mystery

[Bitchisback]

2 hours ago, Beto 22 said:

There wasn't a rumour that the tour was weak on Ticket Sales and Clear Channel wanted to downscale the tour to smaller places and Axl refused so they cancel the entire tour?

Well the show after the Philly show was supposed to take place in Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania but they cancelled it and moved it to the Spectrum in Philly which was a smaller venue then the venue Axl didn't show up to.  I remember they were selling tickets to the second show for 10 dollars outside of the first show

[estrangedtwat]

He definitely wasn't lip-synching cause he flubbed the lines to My Michelle the night I saw him in Ohio.

 

Also, Earl was definitely there in 2002....I met him, and he is even scarier in person.

 

I was actually worried there would be a no-show for the Ohio dates cause the previous show (Detroit?) apparently he got pissed and left the stage after Patience and didn't do an encore, didn't do Nightrain, didn't do Paradise City.   The 2002 Axl felt very much like the 90s Axl where you didn't know what the fuck he was gonna do.

[jekylhyde]

15 hours ago, LunsJail said:

I don’t think Axl’s mental health was in a place to pull off tours in 2002. When he says he was “sick”, that can mean a variety of things. I also firmly believe he has gone on medication since then.

This all pure speculation of course, but I think he dealt with some serious mental health issues, on and off, between the late 90's and early 2000's. I mean, I've dealt with things like that, as have many others, so you can kind of read between the lines that his behavior (not getting anything done, no clear direction with anything, being "flakey", being bitter and angry, being late to everything, procrastinating etc.) at the that time is a classic example of someone having mental health issues.

That doesn't fully excuse him, but it does explain some of it. I mean, suddenly becoming one of the world's biggest rockstars and having insane amounts of money must fuck up your head. Especially when you're sensitive and a tad volatile to begin with. Add having your relationships with your spouses and bandmates blowing up. It's no wonder why the original band went tits up. 

 

[rumandraisin]

6 hours ago, mystery said:

Another question that fits into this is what was the state of the album by 2002? I recall Axl showing what would end up being the cover at one of the shows he did in August. There was also a concert promo from 2002 that used to be on YouTube that had a studio version of Chinese Democracy to promote the tour. Was Axl still hopeful at this point that it would release?

An album could have been released 2002. They had tracks that in my opinion sounded fucking amazing by March 2000. By 2002 had a few more tracks like The General and Better etc. A solid 12 track album could have come out. 

[Blackstar]

8 hours ago, Beto 22 said:

There wasn't a rumour that the tour was weak on Ticket Sales and Clear Channel wanted to downscale the tour to smaller places and Axl refused so they cancel the entire tour?

I haven't heard of this rumour.

After the cancellation, there were comments in the press from industry people saying that 2002 GnR wasn't an arena band and so it should have been a theater tour in the first place. But I haven't read anything about Clear Channel wanting to downscale mid-tour and Axl refusing. That wouldn't have made much sense at that point of the tour anyway, since most of the remaining/cancelled shows had sold well or at least better than shows already played, like Idaho, Fargo, etc.

[guitarpatch]

13 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I haven't heard of this rumour.

After the cancellation, there were comments in the press from industry people saying that 2002 GnR wasn't an arena band and so it should have been a theater tour in the first place. But I haven't read anything about Clear Channel wanting to downscale mid-tour and Axl refusing. That wouldn't have made much sense at that point of the tour anyway, since most of the remaining/cancelled shows had sold well or at least better than shows already played, like Idaho, Fargo, etc.

The tour was canceled because of the riots. I think that was pretty clear. 
 

Clear Channel was the promoter, who controlled/owned many of the venues, and the radio stations across the country. They didn’t need sellouts or every show to perform well to make a profit 

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

The tour was canceled because of the riots. I think that was pretty clear. 
 

Clear Channel was the promoter, who controlled/owned many of the venues, and the radio stations across the country. They didn’t need sellouts or every show to perform well to make a profit 

Yes, I agree. Everything points to the riots having been the reason for the cancellation.

[©GnrPersia]

20 hours ago, whatashame said:

thanks for the replies, guys

 

man, this must be mighty irritating dealing with Axl. The guy is just never to blame but in reality he rarely ever does the right thing. No show in Tacoma 02 ? "I would've gotten there eventually". No show in Philly 02? "I cancelled, but my manager forgot to tell ya". No show in Europe 2001? "My manager forgot to tell me we have a tour". And shit never changed, I was watching 2017 Munich the other day and he said "haven't played here since 1993. Promoter's fault".

 

how do fuck you get sick on a tour anyway? you're on the job, take care of yourseful, fool, earn the money, promote the record so you can have a fuckin mini zoo at home, don't go out drinkin all night on tour so you call in sick the morning of the show and blame Dougie for it. People travel, people make arrangements, babysiters, shit like that , uugh

Axl blames everything and everyone but not himself.

Dude still has issues with IEMs every show and no technology can meet his high expectation till today. Technology's fault.

[chester]

I believe Clear Channel had given Axl a million + upfront payment for the tour in 2000 and were impatiently waiting for him to start the tour and I’m sure promises were made about an album to promote the tour (by management) and when none of that happened  Axl was on thin ice with Clear Channel… Certainly the past history with no shows/riots they weren’t gonna give him a lot of wiggle room… and someone called someone’s bluff and everything got cancelled… All this to say I saw them in 2002 in Moline and it was a freaking awesome show, so whatever it was whether it was industry support or confidence, I wish the album would of came out then. 

[denin]

It adds up. Axl was undoubtedly under pressure to deliver an album and a long planned tour. He was triggered by any mention of Slash. Riots, spotty ticket sales, media commentary, VMAs that did not go very well...

Dude was frail, mentally. He brought up his a-game for MSG, so no question those Stern show comments hurt.

[Stealthcamo]

On 9/1/2021 at 1:22 PM, Blackstar said:

The mental health story is the most plausible (regardless of whether every detail in it was true), combined with another rumour about what specifically happened earlier that day: Axl was in great mood after the MSG show -  it had been sold out and gone really well - and stayed up, excited to read the reviews. But then he put oHoward Stern on the radio and when they were discussing the MSG show, Stern's producer, who was there, said that Axl was lip-synching, and hearing that caused Axl to have a nervous breakdown.

Good job, Baba-Booey. Fucking dolt as always.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Stealthcamo
Trimming the space on the quote section. OCD

[nycgunner]

I went to the 2002 Cleveland show. I was a massive Guns fan and was too young to have seen the Illusion tour. It was awesome. The anticipation of waiting for Axl and his version of GNR to take the stage was incredible.  The placed exploded with the opening chords of Jungle. No GNR show I’ve seen since then (2006, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2021) has come close.

Despite Axl’s voice being very different, he had the true Axl Rose attitude. Fucking loved it 

Edited September 3, 2021 by nycgunner

[DK6]

Was this the time he cancelled becuase his new hair plugs got inflammed?

[nycgunner]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:58 PM, We love Axl Rose said:

Is there an audio recording from MSG show?

There was. Looks like it has been purged.  After the Philly riot, soundboards for most (maybe all) of the 2002 shows leaked online. I got a good chunk of the Cleveland show 

Edited September 3, 2021 by nycgunner

[mystery]

29 minutes ago, DK6 said:

Was this the time he cancelled becuase his new hair plugs got inflammed?

That might be the Summer tour in 2001. I think there might be a pic of Axl in the stands at the Super Bowl in 2003 with the same hair he had in 2002. Would've only been a month after the Philadelphia cancellation.

There's also a really strange one from sometime between 02-05 where he has the 2002 hair but the 2006-7 goattee.

[Mr Mini Mite]

I find your messages very interesting.  I became a fan in 2001, and I remember the huge expectations everyone had about the album and the tour. Despite some flaws, and the circus freak image the band had, I think they sounded well and could've achieved more recognition if the tour hadn't been canceled. It's a shame things didn't turn out well.