Perhaps - New Guns N' Roses Single - Discussion

[Voodoochild]

13 minutes ago, Trin9498 said:

Prediction - most peeps will think perhaps is 10x better than the general 

I fully believe so. 
 

23 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Sorry bro, but I’m not sure what people you’re referring to. I’m certainly not one of them.

Slash’s “Better” solo is equal to Finck’s. His TWAT solo actually stays pretty faithful to Buckethead’s while also putting his own spin on it.

People treat the This I Love solo like it’s fucking November Rain. It’s not. It’s a nice solo on the record, and Slash improvises it live. Why not? It’s not something holy that can’t be touched. As for Prostitute and SoD - again, are those solos really sacred works of art that can’t be messed with? I certainly don’t think so.

As for the recorded songs? Both Absurd and Hard Skool were *improved* by Slash. Perhaps isn’t any better or worse than the demo, but that’s just down to it being a boring song in the first place. Again - the reverence for Robin’s solo on Perhaps blows my mind. 

Everyone has their own tastes, of course, but if you ask me, I’m *excited* that Slash is on The General because, to me, that means the song will at least have a *little* character, instead of sounding like some dated generic early 2000s industrial rock like the rest of the ChiDem leftovers.

understand where you’re coming from, but I strongly disagree about Better, TIL and Perhaps. 

[KIKOZ3]

1 hour ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Sorry bro, but I’m not sure what people you’re referring to. I’m certainly not one of them.

Slash’s “Better” solo is equal to Finck’s. His TWAT solo actually stays pretty faithful to Buckethead’s while also putting his own spin on it.

People treat the This I Love solo like it’s fucking November Rain. It’s not. It’s a nice solo on the record, and Slash improvises it live. Why not? It’s not something holy that can’t be touched. As for Prostitute and SoD - again, are those solos really sacred works of art that can’t be messed with? I certainly don’t think so.

As for the recorded songs? Both Absurd and Hard Skool were *improved* by Slash. Perhaps isn’t any better or worse than the demo, but that’s just down to it being a boring song in the first place. Again - the reverence for Robin’s solo on Perhaps blows my mind. 

Everyone has their own tastes, of course, but if you ask me, I’m *excited* that Slash is on The General because, to me, that means the song will at least have a *little* character, instead of sounding like some dated generic early 2000s industrial rock like the rest of the ChiDem leftovers.

I stopped reading TWAT's comment.

Slash's solo in TWAT is disrespectful to Slash himself as a musician.

 

He improvises and shits on a work of art.

 

The rest is idle talk.

[Bitchisback]

1 hour ago, Trin9498 said:

Prediction - most peeps will think perhaps is 10x better than the general 

I mean it was picked as the main single for a reason right?

 

I'm hoping the General has that hardcore GnR love tho like Estranged compared to November Rain. 

 

Either way I'm excited to hear it, but I don't think this is going to be the greatest song of all time lol. If it was it would have been on CD 

[Free Bird]

4 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Sorry bro, but I’m not sure what people you’re referring to. I’m certainly not one of them.

Slash’s “Better” solo is equal to Finck’s. His TWAT solo actually stays pretty faithful to Buckethead’s while also putting his own spin on it.

People treat the This I Love solo like it’s fucking November Rain. It’s not. It’s a nice solo on the record, and Slash improvises it live. Why not? It’s not something holy that can’t be touched. As for Prostitute and SoD - again, are those solos really sacred works of art that can’t be messed with? I certainly don’t think so.

As for the recorded songs? Both Absurd and Hard Skool were *improved* by Slash. Perhaps isn’t any better or worse than the demo, but that’s just down to it being a boring song in the first place. Again - the reverence for Robin’s solo on Perhaps blows my mind. 

Everyone has their own tastes, of course, but if you ask me, I’m *excited* that Slash is on The General because, to me, that means the song will at least have a *little* character, instead of sounding like some dated generic early 2000s industrial rock like the rest of the ChiDem leftovers.

Pretty much this. Thanks. This guy you're referring to, clearly hasn't heard TWAT by this band currently and even if he had he wouldn't admit.  

[rumandraisin]

7 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

I mean it was picked as the main single for a reason right?

 

I'm hoping the General has that hardcore GnR love tho like Estranged compared to November Rain. 

 

Either way I'm excited to hear it, but I don't think this is going to be the greatest song of all time lol. If it was it would have been on CD 

Perhaps is most likely the more commercial. 

[WhazUp]

9 hours ago, KIKOZ3 said:

 

Slash's solo in TWAT is disrespectful to Slash himself as a musician.

 

He improvises and shits on a work of art.

 

The rest is idle talk.

The superhero Hyperbole Man called, he said you are stealing his job

[1987b]

So this isn’t getting released until 12/8 now?  What a disaster 

[Beto 22]

On 10/25/2023 at 4:56 PM, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I wasn't replying to Coma16 (if I was, I would have quoted them). Rather, I was referring the general attitude of a lot of posters on this sub who pine for the ChiDem lineup and dismiss Slash's playing. There are a few posters who are *already* complaining that Duff and, especially, Slash will be featured on The General because they're convinced that Slash's guitar work will be subpar and not as good as Buckethead's original work...that they haven't heard.

Maybe people are sayin that because Slash work in Chinese songs are subpar. And as much live and studio.

 

So, if things goes at the way it has been for Chinese songs these posters are more connected to reality that your assumption that it will be great.

 

Duff work at Chinese songs are ok. Maybe because his style of playin is close to Tommy and they have more groove

[Beto 22]

20 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Slash’s “Better” solo is equal to Finck’s. His TWAT solo actually stays pretty faithful to Buckethead’s 

No it's not. For both cases 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

1 hour ago, Beto 22 said:

Maybe people are sayin that because Slash work in Chinese songs are subpar. And as much live and studio.

So, if things goes at the way it has been for Chinese songs these posters are more connected to reality that your assumption that it will be great.

Duff work at Chinese songs are ok. Maybe because his style of playin is close to Tommy and they have more groove

Well first of all - I never assumed it would be great. Quite the opposite. I've only posted, I dunno, 500 fucking times that I think all the good shit from that era has already been released. I've specifically questioned how good The General could possibly be if it was passed over for Chinese Democracy.

And I *am* living in reality - Slash's work on both Absurd and Hard Skool is better than the versions leaked on the Village Sessions. If you don't think so, fine, but to my ears both songs received a significant upgrade. And I'm on record as hating Perhaps, and even Slash couldn't save that piece of shit.

You don't like his work on the ChiDem songs live? Understandable - but they're improvised. And he's explained why - he doesn't find the original solos all that inspiring in the first place (though it's telling that he stays truer to the original solo on TWAT, probably because he likes it). I don't have a problem with a musician improvising at a live show. It's live music. If you want the recording...listen to the recording, that's what it's there for. I'm not particularly interested in hearing artists painfully recreate every moment of the album - I want the live feel. Which is what Guns N' Roses, historically speaking, have been about - the looser rock n' roll tradition in the vein of Aerosmith and The Rolling Stones.

And if we *are* going to start taking people to task for not sounding like the album...have you heard the singer lately?!

1 hour ago, Beto 22 said:

No it's not. For both cases 

Yes it is. For both cases. See? I can do that too.

[Beto 22]

57 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

 Understandable - but they're improvised. And he's explained why - he doesn't find the original solos all that inspiring in the first place

And if we *are* going to start taking people to task for not sounding like the album...have you heard the singer lately?!

 

And I dont know whats worse... This lame ass excuse of "I dont play like the solo because it doesn't fit my style" bullshit.

Or if he thinks this  noodling throughout the guitar neck is more "inspiring" than the original solos.

Axl voice is terrible these days. But it's a physical.problem. His vocal chords are gone .

If Axl coud.sings like the 90's he would. It's different scenario that laziness of "it doesnt fit my style"

[Beto 22]

1 hour ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

 

Yes it is. For both cases. See? I can do that too.

Good for ya... Wanna some chewer biscuits?

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

2 hours ago, Beto 22 said:

And I dont know whats worse... This lame ass excuse of "I dont play like the solo because it doesn't fit my style" bullshit.

Or if he thinks this  noodling throughout the guitar neck is more "inspiring" than the original solos.

I don’t believe he said they didn’t fit his style, but rather they didn’t have enough going on melodically, or something to that effect (I can’t seem to find the exact quote and I’m not going to spend much effort defending Slash on a Guns N’ Roses forum). Basically - not that they didn’t fit him, but rather he didn’t like them. So why recreate something he’s not too impressed with? Why not have fun with it?

His “noodling” some nights is better than others. Other nights it’s sublime. That’s the nature of improvisation and live music.

Though speaking of Slash’s style, I find it interesting that the two solos everyone is so bent out of shape over - This I Love and Street of Dreams - are the two most Slash-inspired solos on the record. Those were the two songs that anybody uncomfortable with the shift in musical direction could listen to and think “oh okay…this sounds kinda like the Guns N’ Roses I like.” The rest of the solos are a bunch of soulless shreds and bleep bloop computer noises. Talk about noodling.

2 hours ago, Beto 22 said:

Good for ya... Wanna some chewer biscuits?

I don’t know what the fuck chewer biscuits are. Will they get me high enough to think that Slash playing guitar on a Guns N’ Roses song is a bad thing? If so, yes please. I’ll have two.

Edited October 27, 2023 by GoodOlJohnnyK

[jimisbatman]

6 hours ago, 1987b said:

So this isn’t getting released until 12/8 now?  What a disaster 

This sucks, I was looking forward to listening to this within the week. 

[oneway23]

MoFos in here talking about live improvisational music like GnR are Mahavishnu Orchestra LOL

[gabmmor]

2 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Though speaking of Slash’s style, I find it interesting that the two solos everyone is so bent out of shape over - This I Love and Street of Dreams - are the two most Slash-inspired solos on the record. Those were the two songs that anybody uncomfortable with the shift in musical direction could listen to and think “oh okay…this sounds kinda like the Guns N’ Roses I like.” The rest of the solos are a bunch of soulless shreds and bleep bloop computer noises. Talk about noodling.

Not true. This is objectively wrong. Chinese Democracy has 14 songs and (at least) 8 of them have melodic solos, with no shredding at all: Better, Street of Dreams, If the World, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Sorry, Madagascar, This I Love. Some of them are waaaaay more melodic to anything Slash has released in the last years.

Furthermore, Slash's noodling is not something restricted to Chinese songs or songs he's bored playing for the 1000th time. If you take the latest additions to the set - Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up and Anything Goes - and compare it to how he used to play them live in the nineties (or in the album for AG's case), the difference is clear, the current solos have no melodic structure anymore. And it's not just a matter of improvising or being faithful to the record, his playing has changed a lot, from melodic and soulful phrasing to sloppy shredding, a great example of that being Double Talkin' Jive, a song with lots of room for improvisation. You just can't compare how he used to play DTJ in 1992 to how he has played it since 2016, despite his attempts being technically more demanding currently than in the old days. And his tone doesn't make him any favors also. The same goes for some classic solos such as Yesterdays or Brownstone.

[Voodoochild]

9 hours ago, gabmmor said:

Not true. This is objectively wrong. Chinese Democracy has 14 songs and (at least) 8 of them have melodic solos, with no shredding at all: Better, Street of Dreams, If the World, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Sorry, Madagascar, This I Love. Some of them are waaaaay more melodic to anything Slash has released in the last years.

Furthermore, Slash's noodling is not something restricted to Chinese songs or songs he's bored playing for the 1000th time. If you take the latest additions to the set - Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up and Anything Goes - and compare it to how he used to play them live in the nineties (or in the album for AG's case), the difference is clear, the current solos have no melodic structure anymore. And it's not just a matter of improvising or being faithful to the record, his playing has changed a lot, from melodic and soulful phrasing to sloppy shredding, a great example of that being Double Talkin' Jive, a song with lots of room for improvisation. You just can't compare how he used to play DTJ in 1992 to how he has played it since 2016, despite his attempts being technically more demanding currently than in the old days. And his tone doesn't make him any favors also. The same goes for some classic solos such as Yesterdays or Brownstone.

This 100%. The real problem IMO is not comparing Slash to Bucket or Robin, but to compare with what he used to be before. And yes, his current tone plays a big whole with the impression of sounding lackluster. 

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

This 100%. The real problem IMO is not comparing Slash to Bucket or Robin, but to compare with what he used to be before. And yes, his current tone plays a big whole with the impression of sounding lackluster. 

His tone really isn't great these days. 

Imagine that, endless ressources and money, the finest guitars a player could dream of and a history of having great live tone and you end up with this.

He probably doesn't care or his hearing is fucked or both. 

[Cosmo]

2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

His tone really isn't great these days. 

Imagine that, endless ressources and money, the finest guitars a player could dream of and a history of having great live tone and you end up with this.

He probably doesn't care or his hearing is fucked or both. 

I think it's also his sponsorship deals, etc... Let's say he used a vintage Gibson Les Paul custom shop, a Marshall JCM800, with a Cry Baby wah pedal and whatever (I have no idea if he did, just an example). Now he uses a Slash Signature™ Les Paul and with a Slash Signature™ Marshall amp and a Slash Signature™ Wah pedal. It's what always happens to musicians after they get huge. They become a fabricated version of what they used to be. They're not genuine anymore, they become a sort of cliché of themselves, to profit on the image their fans have of them and create an iconic image for themselves while selling their products. I don't blame Slash. I'd do the same thing. 

[Voodoochild]

49 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

His tone really isn't great these days. 

Imagine that, endless ressources and money, the finest guitars a player could dream of and a history of having great live tone and you end up with this.

He probably doesn't care or his hearing is fucked or both. 

It's interesting because there's a lot of people (including me) spending money to try to get a great tone like what he used to have. I'm eying a $200 pedal made in Venezuela that's a US Reverb exclusive. 

 

45 minutes ago, Cosmo said:

I think it's also his sponsorship deals, etc... Let's say he used a vintage Gibson Les Paul custom shop, a Marshall JCM800, with a Cry Baby wah pedal and whatever (I have no idea if he did, just an example). Now he uses a Slash Signature™ Les Paul and with a Slash Signature™ Marshall amp and a Slash Signature™ Wah pedal. It's what always happens to musicians after they get huge. They become a fabricated version of what they used to be. They're not genuine anymore, they become a sort of cliché of themselves, to profit on the image their fans have of them and create an iconic image for themselves while selling their products. I don't blame Slash. I'd do the same thing. 

I dunno, there's people using his gear and sounding better. And I do think his stuff is good. 

Nikko Slash is a good example. I don't want to put links for his videos here because he had problems with copyright trolls, but he can put out some pretty good Slash sounds IMO.

[KIKOZ3]

14 hours ago, gabmmor said:

Not true. This is objectively wrong. Chinese Democracy has 14 songs and (at least) 8 of them have melodic solos, with no shredding at all: Better, Street of Dreams, If the World, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Sorry, Madagascar, This I Love. Some of them are waaaaay more melodic to anything Slash has released in the last years.

Furthermore, Slash's noodling is not something restricted to Chinese songs or songs he's bored playing for the 1000th time. If you take the latest additions to the set - Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up and Anything Goes - and compare it to how he used to play them live in the nineties (or in the album for AG's case), the difference is clear, the current solos have no melodic structure anymore. And it's not just a matter of improvising or being faithful to the record, his playing has changed a lot, from melodic and soulful phrasing to sloppy shredding, a great example of that being Double Talkin' Jive, a song with lots of room for improvisation. You just can't compare how he used to play DTJ in 1992 to how he has played it since 2016, despite his attempts being technically more demanding currently than in the old days. And his tone doesn't make him any favors also. The same goes for some classic solos such as Yesterdays or Brownstone.

This post is perfect and describes well how mediocre Slash has become as a musician in recent years.

 

He shits on his own solos that he wrote.

 

A shame.

 

He better play Barbie's song.

 

$lash guitarhero

[superloconoriega]

14 hours ago, gabmmor said:

Not true. This is objectively wrong. Chinese Democracy has 14 songs and (at least) 8 of them have melodic solos, with no shredding at all: Better, Street of Dreams, If the World, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Sorry, Madagascar, This I Love. Some of them are waaaaay more melodic to anything Slash has released in the last years.

Furthermore, Slash's noodling is not something restricted to Chinese songs or songs he's bored playing for the 1000th time. If you take the latest additions to the set - Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up and Anything Goes - and compare it to how he used to play them live in the nineties (or in the album for AG's case), the difference is clear, the current solos have no melodic structure anymore. And it's not just a matter of improvising or being faithful to the record, his playing has changed a lot, from melodic and soulful phrasing to sloppy shredding, a great example of that being Double Talkin' Jive, a song with lots of room for improvisation. You just can't compare how he used to play DTJ in 1992 to how he has played it since 2016, despite his attempts being technically more demanding currently than in the old days. And his tone doesn't make him any favors also. The same goes for some classic solos such as Yesterdays or Brownstone.

totally agree. Having seen this version of Guns 3 times I can tell you that his work on the Chinese songs is totally awful and carelessly improvised.

[WhazUp]

3 hours ago, superloconoriega said:

totally agree. Having seen this version of Guns 3 times I can tell you that his work on the Chinese songs is totally awful and carelessly improvised.

I dunno, I personally have seen this version a number of times and honestly have always never had a problem with his Chinese solos overall - he did a decent job on TWAT in 2016 when I saw that song then, SOD and the title track, Better, etc. from this year's show I liked, etc.

[Coma16]

So my refund from GNR (USA) has been processed. My order with UMG Canada is now scheduled to ship November 2nd. Make of it what you will (probably nothing).

[oneway23]

So, I asked this the other day, but, didn't get many takers in the leak discussion thread, so, I'll ask here:

For those who have heard the recent leaks, what will your reaction be if the "R" side is just what we know of as The General, but, it does not include an official release of Monsters?