Slash/Duff/Frank relationship

[Gordon Comstock]

28 minutes ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

I sometimes wonder how much of that is down to his actual drumming or the fact that he isn't named Steven Adler or Matt Sorum.

 

That might've been the case with some people who became fans again the in NITL era, but Frank has been criticized since literally day one. As soon as he replaced Brain in 2006 people noticed how much of a downgrade he was... and like Bumblefoot, he got some praise for getting better on the '09/10 tour, but the criticism was fairly constant since 2006 and only intensified since 2016.

[Swedish]

27 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

That might've been the case with some people who became fans again the in NITL era, but Frank has been criticized since literally day one. As soon as he replaced Brain in 2006 people noticed how much of a downgrade he was... and like Bumblefoot, he got some praise for getting better on the '09/10 tour, but the criticism was fairly constant since 2006 and only intensified since 2016.

Interesting! That's fascinating to me, as someone who has only visited the forum since around 2013 or so and don't remember that I always assumed it mostly started with the NITL tour. Maybe I'm just not as bothered with it as some others on here seem to be.

I do agree that Frank was a downgrade from Brain though but the point I was trying to make in my previous post was that I wouldn't consider him a bad drummer as some people seem to do.

[James Bond]

Frank is fine. It's the singer who needs work.

All the same I don't think Slash or Duff were about to come back into the picture and tell Axl to start firing his guys. They clearly discussed some things with Frank (ie. He no longer plays the Brian variant of the Mr. Brownstone intro), but otherwise it seems like they made it work fine and the bonus was Duff had already been back in the fold playing with Richard and Frank.

Speaking of Brownstone, I think it's funny how much shit Frank got for "playing it wrong" between 2006 and 2014 when all he was doing it was playing it the way Brain did, and yet Brain never got shit on.

[Gordon Comstock]

9 minutes ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

Interesting! That's fascinating to me, as someone who has only visited the forum since around 2013 or so and don't remember that I always assumed it mostly started with the NITL tour. Maybe I'm just not as bothered with it as some others on here seem to be.

I do agree that Frank was a downgrade from Brain though but the point I was trying to make in my previous post was that I wouldn't consider him a bad drummer as some people seem to do.

 

Some aspects of his drumming used to bother me a lot more, but I've accepted it for a while now. And yea, he's clearly not a bad drummer... but he's not really the right style of drummer, either. I think he's mentioned before about trying to fuse the styles of Steven, Matt and Brain, and it doesn't really work IMO.

[ssiscool]

22 minutes ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

I do agree that Frank was a downgrade from Brain though but the point I was trying to make in my previous post was that I wouldn't consider him a bad drummer as some people seem to do.

I know Brain has said he wonders how Frank manages a 3 hour set as he (frank) is getting on a bit now

[shootingstar]

The bass-drummer relationship is the most sensitive one, according to both bassists and drummers I played with. It would have been unlikely that it actually would have worked out smoothly from the very start. 

[Towelie]

49 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Some aspects of his drumming used to bother me a lot more, but I've accepted it for a while now. And yea, he's clearly not a bad drummer... but he's not really the right style of drummer, either. I think he's mentioned before about trying to fuse the styles of Steven, Matt and Brain, and it doesn't really work IMO.

Complaining about the drummer in GNR when you have a singer as shocking as Axl circa 2017-2020 is akin to complaining about Anne Frank's role in Nazi Germany when you have Hitler in the same room. 

[Gordon Comstock]

4 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Complaining about the drummer in GNR when you have a singer as shocking as Axl circa 2017-2020 is akin to complaining about Anne Frank's role in Nazi Germany when you have Hitler in the same room. 

 

No doubt, Axl's been the weakest link for quite a while now.

[AxlSlashthebest]

I could give 1000 £ to know if Franck will be on the next album.....(yes I beleive in a soon new album!!!!)

[El Guapo]

If Axl and Slash would be inspired and great nobody would notice Frank's playing at all. It's not his fault at all that they sound like shit.

[Tom2112]

22 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Lol. Perfect answer. Fortus did state in an interview that the timing with those 3 took time. I mean Frank is a good drummer, but he was plucked from a bar band. He must pinch himself daily for his fortune. There was no way Axl was bringing in anybody new or old. 

This BS that he was plucked from a bar band is nonsense! He was a session player who played with everyone and anyone, from bar bands right up to touring original acts. The snobbery of 'bar band' as also laughable! as if there aren't incredible musicians playing the bar circuit that could easily play in GNR (Gilby was one of those guys). 

I'm sure he does pinch himself though, even an already incredibly well known drummer would pinch themselves if they got the gig with GNR. 

I also agree that he's a good drummer... I just don't always like some of the Frank-isms that he adds to some songs. I love what he does with Mr Brownstone, I hate what he does with November rain and don't cry. As fro tempo, Frank rarely counts a song in too fast, it's almost always the case that Axl, Slash or Duff kick off the song and raise the tempo so the feel of the songs can be jumpy, some songs benefit from this others don't. For whatever reason Frank always gets blamed for this. He has no control over it, that's how the bosses want to play. 

 

[Tom-Ass]

23 hours ago, moreblack said:

It's fine, they made it work in the end

That is highly debatable... Slash plays better with just about any (if not all) other drummers than Frank.. Looks at his playing with his solo band and even the jam on New Years compared to his NITL playing.. They made it work by selling out for money over quality..

20 hours ago, ryanf23 said:

People need to stop worrying about Frank’s drumming and worrying about Axl’s singing.  No matter how good or bad Frank plays, it means nothing if Axl is singing like crap

Truth but Axl is a lost cause.. They could at least try to make the band sound better to make up for how awful Axl is..

[Tom-Ass]

11 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

In a nutshell I think Frank is Axl's boy. I think that his position is ensured by his loyalty to Axl and not his abilities. I feel Axl also wanted to keep Frank as a nod to the previous line-up thus trying to assure that the whole "new GN'R" era wouldn't be completely lost or forgotten.

Axl is extremely loyal to people who are loyal to him so as long as Frank doesn't do anything to piss him off he's guaranteed to remain in his position. Even at the expense of quality. Axl has reasons to keep Frank but they don't necessary have anything to do with his drumming ability. That's the way I see it.

Slash and Duff put up with it for the same reason they put him with Axl's detoriating voice, studio inactivity, useless management, unreasonable secrecy, annihilation of the hard core fanbase and systematic destruction of legacy. The dollars. $$$$$$$$ It would be useless to go into an argument with Axl regarding Frank because it's obvious this is still Axl's band and he's making the decisions.

I also see no reason to suspect Matt Sorum was lying when he said Duff had told him that Frank can't play. Judging by my ears alone I just don't see how Slash and Duff could rate him as a good drummer.

Another hint is the admission of Richard Fortus that Slash and Duff found it hard to adapt to Frank. The reason would probably be his limited ability. Also Fortus is as politically correct as they come therefore the sheer mention of this type "trouble" indicates that the chemistry isn't all that good. 

As far as Frank goes his drumming is just not up to par. He's inferior to every drummer GN'R ever had. I'm no expert but I think he simplied a lot of the fills because he just can't play them as they were meant to be. 

And also he's sort of vanilla. 

Post of the year so far...

[mr-fukaji]

15 hours ago, Legendador said:

he's grooveless

Brain's played with Bootsy Collins, but what does Bootsy know about groove I guess

Edited January 14, 2021 by mr-fukaji

[MaskingApathy]

21 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

In my opinion Duff and Slash put up with Frank for the sake of the band. Or whatever this entity is supposed to be.

You mean for the sake of the $$$. More like they put up with him because they couldn't get Matt back.

19 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

In a nutshell I think Frank is Axl's boy. I think that his position is ensured by his loyalty to Axl and not his abilities. I feel Axl also wanted to keep Frank as a nod to the previous line-up thus trying to assure that the whole "new GN'R" era wouldn't be completely lost or forgotten.

Axl is extremely loyal to people who are loyal to him so as long as Frank doesn't do anything to piss him off he's guaranteed to remain in his position. Even at the expense of quality. Axl has reasons to keep Frank but they don't necessary have anything to do with his drumming ability. That's the way I see it.

Slash and Duff put up with it for the same reason they put him with Axl's detoriating voice, studio inactivity, useless management, unreasonable secrecy, annihilation of the hard core fanbase and systematic destruction of legacy. The dollars. $$$$$$$$ It would be useless to go into an argument with Axl regarding Frank because it's obvious this is still Axl's band and he's making the decisions.

I also see no reason to suspect Matt Sorum was lying when he said Duff had told him that Frank can't play. Judging by my ears alone I just don't see how Slash and Duff could rate him as a good drummer.

Another hint is the admission of Richard Fortus that Slash and Duff found it hard to adapt to Frank. The reason would probably be his limited ability. Also Fortus is as politically correct as they come therefore the sheer mention of this type "trouble" indicates that the chemistry isn't all that good. 

As far as Frank goes his drumming is just not up to par. He's inferior to every drummer GN'R ever had. I'm no expert but I think he simplied a lot of the fills because he just can't play them as they were meant to be. 

And also he's sort of vanilla. 

Pretty much. And what does Axl know about quality anyway when he's content to go out sounding awful every night.

As far as Matt's book goes, yeah he might come off as bitter or whatever all throughout it but I don't think he's lying about the HOF and the reunion stuff. Why would he? And I'm sure that Slash and Duff would take him back to replace Frank if they could.

[F*ck Fear]

9 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

That is highly debatable... Slash plays better with just about any (if not all) other drummers than Frank.. Looks at his playing with his solo band and even the jam on New Years compared to his NITL playing.. They made it work by selling out for money over quality..

Truth but Axl is a lost cause.. They could at least try to make the band sound better to make up for how awful Axl is..

It won't make a difference though. Axl's the voice. 

I couldn't care any less about who's on drums with that fucker pretending he's still capable of singing.

[username]

14 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

No doubt, Axl's been the weakest link for quite a while now.

This. By 2019 Axl sounded like a vietnamese girl in hypno therapy re-experiencing her severe war trauma's. 

And while we're at it, Slash's playing in reunion gnr often seems so disinterested that I'd call that a weak link too. Not nearly as bad as Axl "Cat stuck in a meatgrinder" Rose. But still.

18 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

Axl was the voice. 

Fixed.

[PatrickS77]

18 hours ago, Gackt said:

You really judged a man's entire career based around you not liking how he performed the intro of a song?  

I base it on how the fucker left before the Zurich show, making me drive out there, only to find out that the show had been cancelled. Good thing he never came back.

Edited January 14, 2021 by PatrickS77

[Legendador]

20 hours ago, Gackt said:

You really judged a man's entire career based around you not liking how he performed the intro of a song?  

No, I judge his participation in the GNR entity, as the participation of Bumblefoot and Ashba, which were subpar.

Also, me not liking something is a personal opinion, not  actually the truth ( I tought I didn't need to explain that! LOL)

Edited January 14, 2021 by Legendador

[Legendador]

7 hours ago, mr-fukaji said:

Brain's played with Bootsy Collins, but what does Bootsy know about groove I guess

So tell me, where's the groove with the GNR entity? I'm talking about his participation in GNR.

[jamillos]

I’ve said it here about 150 times, and I’ll say it again: the whole comparison thing is pointless, since each of the drummers (an ex-drummer talking here) belonged to a specific era with specific, different records (sound, style...). Therefore, Adler was great where he was, and Sorum wouldn’t have been better there. Sorum was great where he was, and - like it or not - Adler wouldn’t have been better there, sound- or style-wise. I know he was on the UYI demos, but still. The records would have been different with him behind the kit. Can’t really assess Freese from just some demos. Brain was great where he was. As for Frank… it’s difficult. 
The only logical comparison could be made in terms of some sort of universality/versatility. And I’m afraid, taking the whole record catalogue into consideration, it would be either Sorum or Brain out of the group who’d be the best for the job. 
But again, comparing Adler with Brain is like comparing Slash with Buckethead - i.e. nonsense. 

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, jamillos said:

comparing Adler with Brain is like comparing Slash with Buckethead - i.e. nonsense. 

I think Slash and Bucket share enough qualities as guitar players that it's not nonsense to compare the two. At least some of Bucket's work is comparable to Slash imho. You know... Bucket is a shredder and all that but both players are really good at playing slower with a few notes or fast with a lot of notes and both are capable of some pretty lyrical playing and they understand how to perfectly construct a solo. Short and concise or long but never meandering. Bucket has a bluesy side to him as well. He does the David Gilmour thing quite often too where it's super melodic and the guitar tone plays a major role.

Slash and Bumble are completely different players for example. Also Slash would never come up with something like Robin's Better solo or even This I Love. In some ways, Robin is more different compared to Slash. Slash is a more fluid player, like Bucket.

[Voodoochild]

8 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Slash and Bucket share enough qualities as guitar players that it's not nonsense to compare the two. At least some of Bucket's work is comparable to Slash imho. You know... Bucket is a shredder and all that but both players are really good at playing slower with a few notes or fast with a lot of notes and both are capable of some pretty lyrical playing and they understand how to perfectly construct a solo. Short and concise or long but never meandering. Bucket has a bluesy side to him as well. He does the David Gilmour thing quite often too where it's super melodic and the guitar tone plays a major role.

Slash and Bumble are completely different players for example. Also Slash would never come up with something like Robin's Better solo or even This I Love. In some ways, Robin is more different compared to Slash. Slash is a more fluid player, like Bucket.

All of those guitar players have something unique on their playing style. IMO, this is what Axl was always looking for. Also, that's why Richard didn't get any lead on CD. 

[Rovim]

12 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

All of those guitar players have something unique on their playing style. IMO, this is what Axl was always looking for. Also, that's why Richard didn't get any lead on CD. 

right. But this means that a guitar player can be a shredder but still have enough musical personality, taste, and approach that make him more than just a generic shredder and so for me, he is comparable to Slash in enough areas where it's not ridiculous to do so.

I think his Chinese work proved that he is versatile enough to come up with ideas Slash would probably never be interested in exploring but also ideas that fit Gn'R and Axl's style in a more classic Gn'R way because he shares similar musical priorities as Slash.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Rovim

[Voodoochild]

12 minutes ago, Rovim said:

right. But this means that a guitar player can be a shredder but still have enough musical personality, taste, and approach that make him more than just a generic shredder and so for me, he is comparable to Slash in enough areas where it's not ridiculous to do so.

I think his Chinese work proved that he is versatile enough to come up with ideas Slash would probably never be interested in exploring but also ideas that fit Gn'R and Axl's style in a more classic Gn'R way because he shares similar musical priorities as Slash.

I agree with you, I was just adding that observation.