North America 2021 rescheduled/cancelled/new tour dates discussion thread

[allwaystired]

57 minutes ago, DurhamGirl said:

As a 'newish fan' it depresses me to have to agree with this.

It's just so so odd. It makes no sense on any level.....even on the pure 'let's make some money' level.

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

It's just so so odd. It makes no sense on any level.....even on the pure 'let's make some money' level.

They're 100% relying on casuals for their business model. They're not even doing that right, but that's what they're relying on. 

[mikeman5150]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

It's just so so odd. It makes no sense on any level.....even on the pure 'let's make some money' level.

As far as “lets make some money” I think they get paid whether they sell tickets or not. I think it’s live nation’s problem. But you would think they would much rather play to full or near full stadiums like 16’ so they should be doing something. But if one thing I’ve learned from Axl over the years, he doesn’t give a f?!k about what he “should” do or what would be better for his career. Aside from 2016 when he was IMHO once again the biggest rock star in the world, with the return of Slash/Duff and Axl DC, and good to great vocals, he seems to be such a  self defeating person

[allwaystired]

Just now, mikeman5150 said:

As far as “lets make some money” I think they get paid whether they sell tickets or not. I think it’s live nation’s problem. But you would think they would much rather play to full or near full stadiums like 16’ so they should be doing something. But if one thing I’ve learned from Axl over the years, he doesn’t give a f?!k about what he “should” do or what would be better for his career. Aside from 2016 when he was IMHO once again the biggest rock star in the world, with the return of Slash/Duff and Axl DC, and good to great vocals, he seems to be such a  self defeating person

Yeah, I would imagine they would (perhaps with some sort of bonus aspect for sell outs) but even if it's Live Nation's problem, it just seems incredible to offer so little in terms of a reason for people to attend. If shows don't sell, the chances of promoters wanting to give you money for shows again reduces significantly....so it would always be in the best interest of a band to have their shows sell, surely. 

 

 

[allwaystired]

Just now, RussTCB said:

They're 100% relying on casuals for their business model. They're not even doing that right, but that's what they're relying on. 

Yeah, I suppose so. But the nature of casuals is that they are just that- casual. And they've seen this now, at least once, maybe twice or three times. Chasing them at the expense of all else works as a one-off. 

There doesn't seem to have been any conscious realisation of the fact that just because someone is clad head to toe in GNR merch with a bandanna on, they may not actually give that much of a fuck about GNR when the wind changes and the wheel turns.....in the same way that you may have 'fairweather fans' of a sports team that are doing well for a season who go out and buy all the kit, then are nowhere to be seen the next season. People have always been shallow and phoney, and anyone following music of any kind for some years will have seen audiences come and go and not focused too much on that aspect of it.  To seemingly base EVERYTHING on those people, is madness to my view. 

Ah well. We're all watching from the sidelines now, intrigued as to how this thing is going to go! 

 

 

 

 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

It's weird. GNR ist axls Life and probably passion. Yet he doesn't seem to care to invest more into it than he needs to make it work. Never goes the extra mile. That's some poor work ethic

Edited July 17, 2021 by StayofExecution2020

[mikeman5150]

41 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Yeah, I would imagine they would (perhaps with some sort of bonus aspect for sell outs) but even if it's Live Nation's problem, it just seems incredible to offer so little in terms of a reason for people to attend. If shows don't sell, the chances of promoters wanting to give you money for shows again reduces significantly....so it would always be in the best interest of a band to have their shows sell, surely. 

 

 

Yeah that a good point 

[DTV88]

13 hours ago, jamillos said:

Yo, the world’s not black & white. I’m not vaccinated, yet I believe in science. I’m not saying this to start any Covid bickering shit (thanks but no thanks), I’m just saying the world is not black & white, despite your logical fallacy. Some healthy feedback for ya. 
Peace. 

Yo, get vaccinated and save someone’s life. 

[JAxlMorrison]

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

They're 100% relying on casuals for their business model. They're not even doing that right, but that's what they're relying on. 

It makes sense because they wanna play. There’s always a world where we don’t see these shows at all, back to the total silence years. I prefer today. 

[El Guapo]

2 minutes ago, JAxlMorrison said:

It makes sense because they wanna play. There’s always a world where we don’t see these shows at all, back to the total silence years. I prefer today. 

I don't. GnR was never as boring, uncool and depressing as it is now.

[goodtimes8inity]

They are taking the stage early these days. 

[Tom2112]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:02 PM, CAFC Nick said:

Again, the Mexico poster is showing the AFD5 cross… am I reading too much into this or…?!

Ticket sales are way off what they want. If they had an ace I'm the hole like AFD full reunion that would be shared or  even hinted at. The AFD cross has been used in loads of NITL  promo.

Band will be exactly as we saw it last.

 

[Tom2112]

5 hours ago, mikeman5150 said:

As far as “lets make some money” I think they get paid whether they sell tickets or not. I think it’s live nation’s problem. But you would think they would much rather play to full or near full stadiums like 16’ so they should be doing something. But if one thing I’ve learned from Axl over the years, he doesn’t give a f?!k about what he “should” do or what would be better for his career. Aside from 2016 when he was IMHO once again the biggest rock star in the world, with the return of Slash/Duff and Axl DC, and good to great vocals, he seems to be such a  self defeating person

They get paid, but if livenation and the promoters make a huge loss, they aren't going to rush out to book them again.

[allwaystired]

12 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

They get paid, but if livenation and the promoters make a huge loss, they aren't going to rush out to book them again.

Yeah, that puts it more succinctly than I did! 

[nycgunner]

For folks who are going, are you planning to wear a mask even though it’s not mandated?  Initially, I didn’t plan to since I am double vaxxed. However, with the rise in infections driven by the delta variant, even with the vaccinated, I am rethinking it. 
 

I saw Foo Fighters maskless - and it was great - but I don’t want to get this virus. 
 

Israel is pushing forward on a third shot even though CDC says it’s not necessary. I don’t know - curious what others will do

Edited July 18, 2021 by nycgunner

[Stryker]

2 hours ago, nycgunner said:

For folks who are going, are you planning to wear a mask even though it’s not mandated?  Initially, I didn’t plan to since I am double vaxxed. However, with the rise in infections driven by the delta variant, even with the vaccinated, I am rethinking it. 
 

I saw Foo Fighters maskless - and it was great - but I don’t want to get this virus. 
 

Israel is pushing forward on a third shot even though CDC says it’s not necessary. I don’t know - curious what others will do

I’m not intending to. I’m fully vaccinated and not within a high risk group. 
 

That said, people who want to mask up should absolutely do it without a second thought. Everyone’s circumstances are different, so if you feel more comfortable in a mask, go for it. 

[mikeman5150]

4 hours ago, nycgunner said:

For folks who are going, are you planning to wear a mask even though it’s not mandated?  Initially, I didn’t plan to since I am double vaxxed. However, with the rise in infections driven by the delta variant, even with the vaccinated, I am rethinking it. 
 

I saw Foo Fighters maskless - and it was great - but I don’t want to get this virus. 
 

Israel is pushing forward on a third shot even though CDC says it’s not necessary. I don’t know - curious what others will do

I’m debating the same thing. I think I’ll probably go massless because I have reserved seats and I’m going with a big group who is vaccinated. If I was in the pit, I’m pretty sure I’d wear a mask. That would suck, but I’ve known way too many people who were extremely ill, and 1 who lost his life because of this stuff. I guess it’s better to be safe than sorry

[RussTCB]

I was just at a concert last night. Only about 2000 people, but still, a concert with everyone shoulder to shoulder. I didn't wear a mask but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who chooses to

[Ixtlan]

5 hours ago, nycgunner said:

For folks who are going, are you planning to wear a mask even though it’s not mandated?  Initially, I didn’t plan to since I am double vaxxed. However, with the rise in infections driven by the delta variant, even with the vaccinated, I am rethinking it. 
 

I saw Foo Fighters maskless - and it was great - but I don’t want to get this virus. 
 

Israel is pushing forward on a third shot even though CDC says it’s not necessary. I don’t know - curious what others will do

Iam not wearing a mask for many reasons. One being, it wound just ruin the experience for me. However,  I’m nervous about 40k in one area. I’ve had COVID and it kicked my ass. I don’t want it again.

49 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I was just at a concert last night. Only about 2000 people, but still, a concert with everyone shoulder to shoulder. I didn't wear a mask but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who chooses to

Was there crowd more hyped than usual after the long absence of shows? I’m hoping the audiences are more lively after the long absence. 

[RussTCB]

50 minutes ago, Ixtlan said:

Was there crowd more hyped than usual after the long absence of shows? I’m hoping the audiences are more lively after the long absence. 

There have been a lot of large concerts in Michigan over the past few months, so people are getting used to it again. However, it did seem that everyone there was all about having a good time, so it could have been that everyone was thankful to be back at a show. 

[Draguns]

6 hours ago, nycgunner said:

For folks who are going, are you planning to wear a mask even though it’s not mandated?  Initially, I didn’t plan to since I am double vaxxed. However, with the rise in infections driven by the delta variant, even with the vaccinated, I am rethinking it. 
 

I saw Foo Fighters maskless - and it was great - but I don’t want to get this virus. 
 

Israel is pushing forward on a third shot even though CDC says it’s not necessary. I don’t know - curious what others will do

I was thinking of going to the MetLife show maskless. My childhood friend and I are both fully vaccinated. Now that you brought this up, I may bring my mask with me just in case. 

[Bitchisback]

Fully vaxxed and the show is outdoors so I probably won't wear a mask.  I'm in full support of anyone who does though.  Cases in Pennsylvania are way way down so I'm not too worried.  Our 7 day average was only 270 cases and our state population is almost 13 mil so it's a drop in a bucket

[adamsapple]

On 7/17/2021 at 2:25 PM, DurhamGirl said:

As a 'newish fan' it depresses me

You're not alone. We've all been through this.

We're basically a self help group here. Newbies usually introduce themselves with "Hi, my name is ..... and I'm a Guns N' Roses fan.", in that admitting they got issues and follow this pathetic cult lead by an elusive redhead named "Axl".

Then everybody respectfully says "Hi ... " and we hear each other out, giving us virtual hugs in form of hearts or dolphins and stuff, opening up about our feelings, experiences and our personal progress.

Every once in a while, we have these huge public gatherings called Guns N' Roses concerts. They take place all over the world, with thousands of people showing up. Then we all get excited and feel some sort of relief in not being the only ones - until we realise Axl just repeats the same mantras over and over again with decreasing quality and conviction, if he shows up that is. For a while, those gatherings have become quite small, so Axl lured us back in with holograms of Slash and Duff. We all know it's not really them because no way in hell would the real Slash and Duff ever suck so hard, but we just play along.

Most of the attendees nowadays are just innocent people or even first-timers, they are called "casuals" in our circles, the lowest level of fandom. We both despise and envy these, because for them there is still hope. Not for all though, as some become hooked after attending one of those gatherings and then some of them might even end up here as well.

The band usually means well playing some music to soothe us, but those gatherings only make it worse as you become more addicted or get lured back in, starving for new songs but there aren't any, so you spend hours on the internet trying to find bootlegs and stuff, going deeper and deeper into the abyss.

It's ok, really. You'll be fine. Some of us even had good experiences with various antidots and substitutes, such as "Led Zeppelin" or "The Doors", among many others. However, such treatment is at your own risk and usually not without side effects, so beware!

Personally, I've been going through this for decades now, but I feel I'm slowly making a little progress, becoming more indifferent towards GNR every day. I can even go entire days without listening to their music, sometimes even weeks. And I have not yet gotten tickets to one of those upcoming gathering either. It's probably the first step to sobriety.

 

[Powderfinger]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:49 PM, Tom2112 said:

They get paid, but if livenation and the promoters make a huge loss, they aren't going to rush out to book them again.

This. 
But.... 
 

(Source-Rolling Stone article June 2020)

(Despite it being dated 2020, I doubt much has changed re some of the below policies)

 

 

 

Live Nation Memo to Talent Agencies

The global pandemic has changed the world in recent months and with it the dynamics of the music industry. We are in unprecedented times and must adequately account for the shift in market demand, the exponential rise of certain costs and the overall increase of uncertainty that materially affects our mission. In order for us to move forward, we must make certain changes to our agreements with the artists. The principle changes for 2021 are outlined below.

Artist Guarantees: Artist guarantees will be adjusted downward 20% from 2020 levels.

Ticket Prices: Ticket prices are set by the promoter, at the promoter’s sole discretion, and are subject to change.

Payment Terms: Artists will receive a deposit of 10% one month before the festival, contingent on an executed agreement and fulfillment of marketing responsibilities. The balance, minus standard deductions for taxes and production costs, will be paid after the performance.

Minimum Marketing Requirements: All artists will be required to assist in marketing of the festival through minimum social media posting requirements outlined in artist offer.

Streaming requirements: All artists will be required to allow their performance to be filmed by the festival for use in a live television broadcast, a live webcast, on-demand streaming, and/or live satellite radio broadcast.

Billing: All decisions regarding “festival billing” are at the sole discretion of the promoter.

Merchandise: Purchaser will retain 30 % of Artist merchandise sales and send 70% to the artist within two weeks following the Festival

Airfare and Accommodations: These expenses will be the responsibility of the artist.

Sponsorship: The promoter controls all sponsorship at the festival without any restrictions, and artists may not promote brands onstage or in its productions.

Radius Clause. Violation of a radius clause without the festival’s prior authorization in writing will, at the festival’s sole discretion, result in either a reduction of the artist fee or the removal of the artist from the event, with any pre-event deposits returned to the festival immediately.

Insurance: The artist is required to maintain its own cancellation insurance as the promoter is not responsible for the artist fee in the event of a cancellation of the festival due to weather or a force majeure.

Cancellation by Artist: If an artist cancels its performance in breach of the agreement, the artist will pay the promoter two times the artist’s fee.

Cancellation Due to Poor Sales. If a show is cancelled due to poor ticket sales, the artist will receive 25% of the guarantee.

Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance.

Inability to Use Full Capacity of the Venue: If the promoter – either because of orders of the venue or any governmental entity – is not permitted to use the full capacity of the venue, then the promoter may terminate the agreement, and artist will refund any money previously paid.

We are fully aware of the significance of these changes, and we did not make these changes without serious consideration. We appreciate you – and all artists – understanding the need for us to make these changes in order to allow the festival business to continue not only for the artists and the producers, but also for the fans.

 

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/live-nation-memo-pay-cuts-covid-1016989/amp/

[Ixtlan]

21 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

This. 
But.... 
 

(Source-Rolling Stone article June 2020)

(Despite it being dated 2020, I doubt much has changed re some of the below policies)

 

 

 

Live Nation Memo to Talent Agencies

The global pandemic has changed the world in recent months and with it the dynamics of the music industry. We are in unprecedented times and must adequately account for the shift in market demand, the exponential rise of certain costs and the overall increase of uncertainty that materially affects our mission. In order for us to move forward, we must make certain changes to our agreements with the artists. The principle changes for 2021 are outlined below.

Artist Guarantees: Artist guarantees will be adjusted downward 20% from 2020 levels.

Ticket Prices: Ticket prices are set by the promoter, at the promoter’s sole discretion, and are subject to change.

Payment Terms: Artists will receive a deposit of 10% one month before the festival, contingent on an executed agreement and fulfillment of marketing responsibilities. The balance, minus standard deductions for taxes and production costs, will be paid after the performance.

Minimum Marketing Requirements: All artists will be required to assist in marketing of the festival through minimum social media posting requirements outlined in artist offer.

Streaming requirements: All artists will be required to allow their performance to be filmed by the festival for use in a live television broadcast, a live webcast, on-demand streaming, and/or live satellite radio broadcast.

Billing: All decisions regarding “festival billing” are at the sole discretion of the promoter.

Merchandise: Purchaser will retain 30 % of Artist merchandise sales and send 70% to the artist within two weeks following the Festival

Airfare and Accommodations: These expenses will be the responsibility of the artist.

Sponsorship: The promoter controls all sponsorship at the festival without any restrictions, and artists may not promote brands onstage or in its productions.

Radius Clause. Violation of a radius clause without the festival’s prior authorization in writing will, at the festival’s sole discretion, result in either a reduction of the artist fee or the removal of the artist from the event, with any pre-event deposits returned to the festival immediately.

Insurance: The artist is required to maintain its own cancellation insurance as the promoter is not responsible for the artist fee in the event of a cancellation of the festival due to weather or a force majeure.

Cancellation by Artist: If an artist cancels its performance in breach of the agreement, the artist will pay the promoter two times the artist’s fee.

Cancellation Due to Poor Sales. If a show is cancelled due to poor ticket sales, the artist will receive 25% of the guarantee.

Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance.

Inability to Use Full Capacity of the Venue: If the promoter – either because of orders of the venue or any governmental entity – is not permitted to use the full capacity of the venue, then the promoter may terminate the agreement, and artist will refund any money previously paid.

We are fully aware of the significance of these changes, and we did not make these changes without serious consideration. We appreciate you – and all artists – understanding the need for us to make these changes in order to allow the festival business to continue not only for the artists and the producers, but also for the fans.

 

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/live-nation-memo-pay-cuts-covid-1016989/amp/

Thanks for this information. Very interesting.