Fortus disagrees with Nuno Bettencourt over Slash's guitar skills - Nuno responds

[Rovim]

49 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

More Than Words is considered a late classic of the hair band era, just before grunge came through and wiped it away. These days, you can hear it at karaoke nights and just about every college acapella group gives it a try. Get The Funk Out was a minor hit at the time, but it was always incredibly cheesy and lame. The rest of those songs, the overwhelming majority of people have never heard and don't care about. It's irrelevant.

Furthermore, no one's debating who wrote better songs (by the way, I count only *one* song that Nuno Bettencourt should boast of writing, and that's More Than Words). It's a debate over chops, and who could handle the Rihanna gig. Richard Fortus has handled the Rihanna gig, so that's not even a debate. And if you don't think he has chops, you're not paying attention.

This is what Nuno Bettencourt is up to now, by the way:

'Keep rock and roll alive,' and 'the winner is rock 'n' roll,' are two of the cringiest, most embarrassing things I've ever read. Grow the fuck up. If you're over the age of, say, 25 and you're still talking about "rock n' roll forever," or shouting things like "rock ain't dead," or worrying over young people not listening to the same boring guitar shredders that they used to, then you're a loser. You're going to start an 'initiative to keep rock n' roll alive?' Maybe start by writing a song that people actually like to listen to. It's that simple.

By the way - "rock n' roll" is doing just fine. Many of Extreme's contemporaries like Metallica, The Foo Fighters, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Guns N' Roses, Pearl Jam, U2, Green Day, etc. are all selling out arenas and stadiums. It's just that no one gives a shit about 80s butt rock shredders like Extreme anymore, because that shit is boring and always has been.

I'd take Richard's Better chorus riff over Nuno's entire catalog with Extreme. Kidding. Kinda.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

I'd take Richard's Better chorus riff over Nuno's entire catalog with Extreme. Kidding. Kinda.

Which riff is Richard's? The "no one ever told me..." line? Or the "now I know you better..." line?

[DTJ80]

It’s funny - Slash isn’t the most technically gifted guitarist in the world. But his strength is that he doesn’t need to be - he can (certainly back in the day) say more in 10 notes than some can say in a 100.

November Rain is a perfect example - it’s not overly difficult from a technical sense however but absolutely nails what it needs to convey AND is one of the most famous solos ever. Estranged too - plays the right notes, amount of notes and it’s stunning. Yet from a technical level it’s probably not that difficult.

Edited July 25, 2023 by DTJ80

[Outofgascar]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:26 AM, batatadoce said:

"I new" 

that's the most shocking part.

New-no Bettencourt

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Which riff is Richard's? The "no one ever told me..." line? Or the "now I know you better..." line?

"now I know you better"

[vloors]

6 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

More Than Words is considered a late classic of the hair band era, just before grunge came through and wiped it away. These days, you can hear it at karaoke nights and just about every college acapella group gives it a try. Get The Funk Out was a minor hit at the time, but it was always incredibly cheesy and lame. The rest of those songs, the overwhelming majority of people have never heard and don't care about. It's irrelevant.

Furthermore, no one's debating who wrote better songs (by the way, I count only *one* song that Nuno Bettencourt should boast of writing, and that's More Than Words). It's a debate over chops, and who could handle the Rihanna gig. Richard Fortus has handled the Rihanna gig, so that's not even a debate. And if you don't think he has chops, you're not paying attention.

This is what Nuno Bettencourt is up to now, by the way:

'Keep rock and roll alive,' and 'the winner is rock 'n' roll,' are two of the cringiest, most embarrassing things I've ever read. Grow the fuck up. If you're over the age of, say, 25 and you're still talking about "rock n' roll forever," or shouting things like "rock ain't dead," or worrying over young people not listening to the same boring guitar shredders that they used to, then you're a loser. You're going to start an 'initiative to keep rock n' roll alive?' Maybe start by writing a song that people actually like to listen to. It's that simple.

By the way - "rock n' roll" is doing just fine. Many of Extreme's contemporaries like Metallica, The Foo Fighters, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Guns N' Roses, Pearl Jam, U2, Green Day, etc. are all selling out arenas and stadiums. It's just that no one gives a shit about 80s butt rock shredders like Extreme anymore, because that shit is boring and always has been.

Cant try and discredit extremes music when Richard has put out nothing that has even sold 10 percent of what they have sold.

More people would know who nuno was then richard fortus. Even after guns massive tours a majority dont know him or think its Izzy on stage. 

Saying that though this is a childish internet argument on both guitarists sides. No one is impressed with who can or cant play a lip syncing pop artists shitty music.

Edited July 25, 2023 by vloors

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

The kid in me wants to see a guitar cut throat jam crossroads style between the two of them…🎸🎸

[WhazUp]

I think a lot of people need to realize that we don't need to tear one down to built another up.  Nuno is a great guitarist, Richard is a great guitarist, and they both excel and have succesful careers doing different things

Nuno saying something a bit wonky doesn't detract from that, and to me doing the whole "Richard hasn't had a hit of his own" or "Nuno is only known for being a part of a one-hit wonder band" to me is pointless.  Any guitar player would kill to be in either of their positions in terms of oppurtunities and financially

 

And getting the Rihanna gig is pretty sweet, I would no hesistation jump at the chance to be able to do that

Edited July 26, 2023 by WhazUp

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

4 hours ago, vloors said:

Cant try and discredit extremes music when Richard has put out nothing that has even sold 10 percent of what they have sold.

More people would know who nuno was then richard fortus. Even after guns massive tours a majority dont know him or think its Izzy on stage. 

Saying that though this is a childish internet argument on both guitarists sides. No one is impressed with who can or cant play a lip syncing pop artists shitty music.

Your argument doesn’t make much sense. You say I can’t discredit Exteme’s music, because Richard hasn’t put out anything popular. Richard’s output is completely irrelevant here - I’m not discrediting Extreme’s music because of him, I’m discrediting their music because it’s not any good. I never gave it any credit to begin with. Then you say Nuno has outsold Richard, which begs the question of what sales has to do with this. They’re not discussing who makes more popular music. They’re discussing whether or not Slash has the prowess to play in Rihanna’s band - a job they’ve both done. So Nuno has outsold Richard - that means his opinion matters more? That’s nonsense.

Then you say “more people know who Nuno is than Richard.” In Japan, I suppose. Anywhere else? Barely. The fact is, neither of them are getting recognized anywhere outside of a Guitar Center these days. Nuno Bettencourt was onstage at the Super Bowl half time show and if you blinked, you missed him in the background. He’s not a celebrity anywhere outside of guitar magazines and niche heavy metal blogs that still report on 1980s pop metal. And by the way, those people who read guitar magazines and are in to 1980s metal? If they still care about what Extreme is up to in 2023, then they likely still care about what Guns N’ Roses is up to in 2023. So they might even know Richard - those are some small circles. But it’s irrelevant because, just as in the last paragraph, the metrics you choose to rate Nuno’s argument don’t make sense. So I ask you: what the hell does Nuno Bettencourt’s non-existent fame have to do with him being wrong in his dispute with Richard?!

Lastly, you close with “no one is impressed with who can or can’t play a lip synching pop artist’s shitty music.” But that’s exactly what the argument is: Nuno is impressed! He’s impressed with himself, and he wants everyone else to be. That’s why he chose Slash to put down: he knows the world recognizes Slash as being an internationally recognized Guitar God who is a household name and he’s saying “you see how impressive I am? This job I’m doing now? Even the great Slash couldn’t do it. That’s how good I am. Isn’t that impressive?”

I’m sorry, but I honestly can’t see the other side at all on this one. Not only is Nuno wrong that Slash couldn’t do it, he comes off as an arrogant asshole, and his attack on Richard is not only bizarre, out of line, and dick behavior. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by GoodOlJohnnyK

[axlvai]

"Replacement player in guns"

Ouch!

[Powderfinger]

On 7/24/2023 at 1:50 AM, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

There’s nothing more boring than a guitarist who thinks that technical proficiency means greatness.

Not that anyone cares but I received an offer to audition for a major pop act when I was fresh out of college in 2010, (again, this is actually irrelevant because this shouldn’t matter). I was in my early 20s at the time. I can say that, as hard as I practiced for the gig, the hardest part wasn’t the music - it was competing against guitarists who could do absolutely amazing things on guitar and, more importantly, look cool doing it. I was a recent college grad with no money for cool rock star clothing, so I showed up in what I thought would be a decent replacement: some ripped up jeans and a white t-shirt. A lot of the other folks there looked like extras from Sons of Anarchy, while others looked right off of a runway. Some could play circles around me, others I actually thought I was “better” then. But all of the ones who moved on had one thing I didn’t at the time - showmanship. I did my best “rock star” but I fell short.

The purpose of this story is to poke holes in Nuno’s premise that a gig like that requires a level of musicianship unattainable to a good guitarist: that’s not necessarily true. Fortus, for example, could have probably sleepwalked through his Rihanna gig. Showmanship plays a *big* part in it. And those touring guitarists often are amazing because that tends to be who gets invited to and selected for those gigs. You have to have chops. But you often don’t use them.

Nuno Bettencourt can shred up and down the neck at an incredible rate of speed, playing clean, fluid licks with exceptional technique.…

…and no one fucking cares. Because the point is that, until you write something worth a damn, all the fast licks and sweep picking and tapping don’t mean a damn thing.

The press that Nuno is getting for the Rise solo dubbing him the new Eddie Van Halen is so annoying and it seems to have gone to his head. First of all, it’s only guitar-centric media that acts this way. No one outside of hard rock or guitar nerd culture cares.

Second of all, Eddie Van Halen changed guitar playing forever not just through his incredible technical ability but also his sense of melody and songwriting. So many of Eddie’s solos weren’t actually that difficult (think Ain’t Talkin’ Bout Love or Everybody Wants Some) - but damn were they tuneful and memorable! The Rise solo is…impressive, I guess? But the song sucks, so who cares? There are plenty of songs with flashy guitar playing - why has this one been falsely propped up as some sort of spiritual successor to Eruption?

Third of all, these days technical ability is overrated because as good as Nuno Bettencourt or Slash are, there’s always gonna be some dude on Instagram who can play faster, cleaner, and more complex licks, two hand tapping while diving the whammy bar with his dick. So at that point, you have to move on to songwriting chops. Nuno wrote “More Than Words,” which is a classic song that people know and remember. That’s incredible. It’s very hard to do. But Slash wrote Sweet Child O’ Mine, the November Rain solos, Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, Nightrain, Brownstone, the guitar melodies and solos on Estranged, the list goes on. In a competition over who is more important to rock history, it’s not even debatable.

And in terms of who could handle the Rihanna gig? Slash would walk in with his top hat and the musical director would fire Nuno Bettencourt before Slash was done plugging in his guitar. Because while Nuno’s busy whipping his hair around, Slash is an icon of rock n’ roll and his *look alone* would nail the gig. There’s no musical style that Nuno performs on those Rihanna songs that Slash couldn’t do - the idea that Slash couldn’t handle switching between reggae and dance pop is particularly absurd - and anything he does that is outside of Slash’s repertoire, like sweep picking, isn’t necessary for the gig.

Nuno’s a dickhead because all of his false modesty (“Slash is a hero of mine!”) doesn’t make sense when the clear premise of what he was saying was “this gig is so fucking tough that even the best guitarists like Slash can’t do it - but I can! I’m more than rock n’ roll, I’m a *real* musician!” Only to walk it back like a little bitch once Fortus disagreed (and disagreed incredibly respectfully).

For him to then knock Fortus makes even less sense. “I’ve never heard of you outside of the Rihanna camp and as a replacement player in Guns N’ Roses.”

Well no one knows Nuno Bettencourt outside of Extreme. And no one under, say 42 knows Nuno Bettencourt at all except for maybe some older shredders working on their skills at your local Guitar Center.

Furthermore, Fortus has played THE EXACT SAME GIG! Before Nuno! The amount of nerve to then turn around and slam the guy who just did your exact gig, and then try to big time him by saying you’ve never heard of him, when Nuno himself hasn’t been relevant since 1991 is staggering.

So on the one hand, he’s talking some bullshit about Slash. Then he tries to walk it back and say he’d never do such a thing and deflects and tries to turn it on Fortus. So he’s talking out of both sides of his mouth and it’s all bullshit.

Sounds like Double Talkin’ Jive to me.

I wish Axl would let this home fuck have it on stage.

 

I’ve always wondered if some of those “technical” players secretly hate guitarists like Slash or Cobain or Neil Young……You can learn an awful lot on the guitar, but you cannot really be taught what Slash has in his playing. The emotion, the melody, the passion, the phrasing, the tone, and most importantly the ability to put that all into the songs he wrote or co wrote, which there is a lot of.
 

Nuno may be a great guitar player, but a shitty guitarist who could write great songs killed bands like his (Cobain) It has to hurt when you’ve spent 1000s of hours practicing sweep picking and dick whammy’s and then there’s a guy playing power chords at the top of the charts. Neil Young’s solos are out there, he’s using the feedback, the tone and the whammy, manipulating the guitar and it’s noise, its hit this note now make it scream and howl type soloing. It’s not technical it’s all emotion and vibe. You can learn how to play guitar, but it won’t help you playing the guitar and it won’t mean you can write melodic songs or solos or have a unique style of playing. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

45 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

I’ve always wondered if some of those “technical” players secretly hate guitarists like Slash or Cobain or Neil Young……You can learn an awful lot on the guitar, but you cannot really be taught what Slash has in his playing. The emotion, the melody, the passion, the phrasing, the tone, and most importantly the ability to put that all into the songs he wrote or co wrote, which there is a lot of.
 

Nuno may be a great guitar player, but a shitty guitarist who could write great songs killed bands like his (Cobain) It has to hurt when you’ve spent 1000s of hours practicing sweep picking and dick whammy’s and then there’s a guy playing power chords at the top of the charts. Neil Young’s solos are out there, he’s using the feedback, the tone and the whammy, manipulating the guitar and it’s noise, its hit this note now make it scream and howl type soloing. It’s not technical it’s all emotion and vibe. You can learn how to play guitar, but it won’t help you playing the guitar and it won’t mean you can write melodic songs or solos or have a unique style of playing. 

Oh for sure! I totally agree, and I know a lot of these shred guys *hate* guys like Kurt Cobain because he completely delegitimized anything they ever tried to be. For another great example of this, check the comments section of any portion of It Might Get Loud on YouTube. It features Jimmy Page, Jack White, and The Edge from U2 playing guitar. And guitar shredders *hated* the fact that Edge was there, because he doesn’t shred at *all.* His approach to guitar is so unorthodox, using not only his guitar, but a slew of effects to create not only riffs but entire sonic landscapes. The guitar traditionalists, of course, hated it. They spent their lives playing a thousand notes a second, while Edge is making beautiful music with only four notes on two strings.

One significant note though: guys like Cobain and Neil Young aren’t technically accomplished, but they shine with melody and feel and emotion. Slash does too, but it’s important to note that he *is* very technically proficient. Slash isn’t sloppy, despite what the folks in the concert threads might have you believe. Jimmy Page is sloppy. Joe Perry is sloppy. Slash plays with that loose *feel*, but it’s very intentional and fluid. He’s got blazing speed too, but his tastes run towards blues and latin music, while most shredders seem to idolize neoclassical guitarists for some reason.

That said, guys like Slash and Kirk Hammett *really* chap guitar nerds’ asses because the world at large gives them credit for being shredders - which they are, by the way - but they’re not as acrobatic as say, a Nuno Bettencourt. So they try to denigrate Slash and Kirk because, while they were busy studying modal theory and practicing sweep picking, Slash and Kirk had their attention on what really matters in rock: attitude and soul. If you’ve ever played American football, you’ve probably been on a team with or played against a wide receiver who was fast as shit, could blaze by you, but could not catch a ball or run a route to save his life. He had amazing straight line speed, but couldn’t do what *actually mattered* in a game. That’s what these shred types remind me of. They don’t understand why their guitar athleticism isn’t enough. They’re putting out flashy but insubstantial shit like Rise for an audience of a few thousand, while Slash and Kirk are writing songs that move billions of people with songs like Sweet Child O’ Mine and Enter Sandman.

Edited July 26, 2023 by GoodOlJohnnyK

[Giblet]

Rich has played with Bucket and Bumble... Sorry Nuno

[moreblack]

Playing for Rihanna wouldn't be a struggle for any pro player. Even if yer ain't familiar, you sit with the songs for a few hours and figure it out. No sweat.

[DoMw94]

Justin Hawkins has weighed in

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by DoMw94

[El Guapo]

37 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

Justin Hawkins has weighed in

 

 

That was surprisingly lame

[SAU3R]

5 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

That was surprisingly lame

Yeah I thought so too. I usually enjoy his videos but here he just stated what happened without really analyzing it and giving his opinion.. maybe because he’s cool with both Richard and Nuno and wants it to stay like this

most interesting thing was that he follows Richard on Strava

[DoMw94]

23 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

That was surprisingly lame

Sadly I agree. I expected a lot more than a recap followed by 'yeah people hate eachother again'

[IzzysMissy]

18 hours ago, vloors said:

 

More people would know who nuno was then richard fortus. Even after guns massive tours a majority dont know him or think its Izzy on stage. 

 

If f I recall correctly, at a few Threeunion shows (at lest 3 or 4) I’ve had to turn back to some overexcited pleeb and gently correct them that in fact it ISNT Izzy on stage 😬

Always quite (awkwardly) hysterical to the rest of us!

[moreblack]

16 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

Sadly I agree. I expected a lot more than a recap followed by 'yeah people hate eachother again'

But on the other hand, yay people hate each other again!

[Free Bird]

What I can tell for sure, Nuno's never heard KOHD live by GNR. That's a whole Rihanna gig in just one song.

[vloors]

7 hours ago, IzzysMissy said:

If f I recall correctly, at a few Threeunion shows (at lest 3 or 4) I’ve had to turn back to some overexcited pleeb and gently correct them that in fact it ISNT Izzy on stage 😬

Always quite (awkwardly) hysterical to the rest of us!

Yep ive been to 7 shows over the years. Most have no idea. If only it was izzy.

[HollyWoodRose84]

Seriously Richard, STFUUUUUPPPPPP

Edited July 27, 2023 by HollyWoodRose84

[HollyWoodRose84]

22 hours ago, axlvai said:

"Replacement player in guns"

Ouch!

Well, I mean….he’s not lying. 

[DK6]

Nuno has obviously never heard Slash give Axl some reggae!!